Shattered Kingdoms

Where Roleplay and Tactics Collide
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 Post subject: Re: [IDEA] Targeting keywords: front, behind
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:14 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:21 pm
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Hello Kitty wrote:
With a reaching weapon I agree, and I think that's how it is. However with spells, scrolls, circle stab, hamstring, wands, etc, I don't agree. You shouldn't be able to recite petrification scrolls at "front" sargas without ever even looking at his group to see what's in front of him. How difficult is "north, recite front sargas, recite front sargas, order all bash sargas"? Not very. It seems silly to me. If you want to address circle stab issues, do that. Honestly you should be able to target any rank with circle stab if you're going to allow it to hit behind someone in the first place. The rogue is running from his own group around formations and stabbing someone, then retreating. What's the difference if he's running to the opposing formation's first, second, or third rank?


This doesn't take an extreme situation into account, like when there is nothing in front of Sargas. Do you shoot blanks with your scrolls for two rounds and lag yourself up? Not to mention that Sargas (or any opponent) will likely be doing things to kill you at the same time.

Besides, I see no reason why what you described cannot be a legitimate strategy. Do you have to like it? No. But just because you don't like something doesn't make it wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: [IDEA] Targeting keywords: front, behind
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:23 pm 
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Implementor

Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2002 4:00 pm
Posts: 8220
Location: Redwood City, California
Just to be clear, I think a behind (and a front, if it's really applicable) should only happen for commands that are already limited by formation. Reciting scrolls or casting spells is almost never affected by formation (I actually can't think of ANY right now, but someone will probably correct me).


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 Post subject: Re: [IDEA] Targeting keywords: front, behind
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:26 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:55 pm
Posts: 74
ninja_ardith wrote:
This doesn't take an extreme situation into account, like when there is nothing in front of Sargas. Do you shoot blanks with your scrolls for two rounds and lag yourself up? Not to mention that Sargas (or any opponent) will likely be doing things to kill you at the same time.


Right, exactly. What if there's nobody behind Sargas and you "circle behind sargas" do you get combat lag? If you simply tell people who's where with some accuracy they can choose who to hit and actually target people themselves.

ninja_ardith wrote:
Besides, I see no reason why what you described cannot be a legitimate strategy. Do you have to like it? No. But just because you don't like something doesn't make it wrong.


I'm proposing an alternative, better in my mind, solution to the problem. Does everyone have to agree? No, obviously not. I don't really need you to tell me how opinions work.


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 Post subject: Re: [IDEA] Targeting keywords: front, behind
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:47 pm 
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Mortal Philanthropist

Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 12:58 pm
Posts: 3632
Location: Spokane, WA
I have always thought you couldn't basically automatically tell who is blocking you from targeting the other.

I would be alright with this.

Code:
backstab Sargas
Sargas is being guarded by 5.Wraith!


And for the front liners:

Code:
Bash Sargas
Sargas is being guarded by 3.Wraith and 5.Wraith!


3.Wraith would be in position MX and 5.Wraith would be in FX


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 Post subject: Re: [IDEA] Targeting keywords: front, behind
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:22 pm 
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Immortal (Inactive)

Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:14 pm
Posts: 828
SK Character: Sargas
Hello Kitty wrote:
I suppose I am against a targeting command that allows you to target someone and hit someone else. If anything I think you need to enhance the glance command to include groups and differentiate between like NPCs. Glance Sargas. Sargas is behind 2.wraith, 4.wraith, and next to 7.wraith. Figuring out who's where is a PvP skill people should have to learn. If you want to make it easier that's fine, but don't do it in the manner of putting in a bypass for actually forcing them to make their character look at the group and figure it out. Adding in a behind or front targeting command also takes away from combat where formations change, such as with tumbling, rescue, or ejecting.


Sure, the "skill" -- which many people will bypass by creating a trigger that automatically catches the information and separates it for the player to only have to type a command which immediately and correctly attacks the person it is supposed to.


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 Post subject: Re: [IDEA] Targeting keywords: front, behind
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:24 pm 
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Immortal (Inactive)

Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:14 pm
Posts: 828
SK Character: Sargas
Dulrik wrote:
Just to be clear, I think a behind (and a front, if it's really applicable) should only happen for commands that are already limited by formation. Reciting scrolls or casting spells is almost never affected by formation (I actually can't think of ANY right now, but someone will probably correct me).


But the recital and casting of spells CAN affect formation. If I want to kill whoever is in front of Sargas, and I want to recite my scroll to do it....


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 Post subject: Re: [IDEA] Targeting keywords: front, behind
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:29 pm 
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Mortal Philanthropist

Joined: Mon Jun 21, 2004 12:58 pm
Posts: 3632
Location: Spokane, WA
If this happens, bards will become a good 2nd row char for tactical purposes


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 Post subject: Re: [IDEA] Targeting keywords: front, behind
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:58 pm 
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Immortal (Inactive)

Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:14 pm
Posts: 828
SK Character: Sargas
Muktar wrote:
If this happens, bards will become a good 2nd row char for tactical purposes


Uhhhh aren't they already


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 Post subject: Re: [IDEA] Targeting keywords: front, behind
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:20 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 4:51 am
Posts: 442
Bards suck big time now. The least you can do for them is fix Persuade.


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 Post subject: Re: [IDEA] Targeting keywords: front, behind
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:08 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2004 8:43 am
Posts: 5614
Location: Columbia, South Carolina
SK Character: Pilnor, Surrit, Berr, Rall
Hello Kitty wrote:
How difficult is "north, recite front sargas, recite front sargas, order all bash sargas"? Not very. It seems silly to me.
No more difficult than "dirt sargas, bash sargas," which is the MO for most melee characters nowadays.

That said, if a caster immediately lags themselves for 3-4 rounds by walking in and stacking two petrification scrolls hoping they'll work, they might be surprised at their ensuing deadness.


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