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 Post subject: Re: Dispel v. Elementals
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 3:42 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:41 am
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Location: Witness Protection
SK Character: Cyndane - Talys
Kin wrote:
Sorcs can escape (You know that nifty command called FLEE?) and get another charm when they escape instantly. Scouts can go get another tame instantly. Necros can go get a control. They don't have to wait and hide for 10 minutes hoping no one manages to find them while they're entirely vulnerable because they can remedy their vulnerabilities within a reasonable time frame. Furthermore, a warlock can be shut down for upwards of 20+ minutes because of the limitation.

The 3% was a joke. Stop taking things so seriously, geez. Scouts and Sorcs can get herbs to buff their charm / pets. A warlock can't. The whole "Don't get outlawed!" thing is such a stupid argument I don't know where to begin. You see, we have these things called darkies. You know they typically don't follow rules and such and create this interesting thing called conflict. It's what keeps the game, you know, from getting boring and RP'ing about their mundane existence all the time. I mean if you could kill a shopkeep and take their stuff, sure I wouldn't care so much about it, but darkies get entirely shafted when they're outlawed. Goods become non accessible entirely. There is difficulty and then there is just entirely unreasonable, but that's not the topic here.

Honestly you guys overreact to everything I say. This is just a mild buff to see some more versatility, that's all. Just because they have a one trick pony doesn't make them fine. They have their limitations and honestly, making other elementals useless so not every warlock HAS to run around with a stupid fire elemental isn't a bad thing to do. Why can you even summon others if they're essentially useless? Geez, you all need to calm down. One change gets suggested and its "OMG U R FINE L2P NOOB!" Damn, you guys need to chill. He's not asking for magma to delete pfiles here.


No. They are not completely vulnerable. How is a warlock ever any more vulnerable than a rogue/bard/etc? If anything they're less vulnerable. Stone skin, ironguard, fly, invis, detects.

This is why Dulrik changed it so that warlocks can BUY PETS, and have an elemental.

If you people weren't zomg obsessed with chain lightning for some ridiculous reason, you'd be doing a lot better. So yes. L2P NOOBS seems accurate.

Also, yes, a sorc/etc can go get a new charm. They also you know. Have to go do that. They can't just randomly whip up a super pet out of their bag.

That's assuming that the GM barb with a weapon that had charmed/controlled didn't just murder them. Which is a pretty likely result.

This is one of the downsides of conjure elemental not being a concentrated spell and not having mana drain either.


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 Post subject: Re: Dispel v. Elementals
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:20 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:21 pm
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Knowing I have very little knowledge about the Necromancer class, is all of their undead require concentration? Also, compared to the warlock pet, how easily dispelled are the undead?


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 Post subject: Re: Dispel v. Elementals
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:22 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 16, 2002 4:06 am
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Location: Murfreesboro/Cookeville, Tennessee
Animates require concentration. They are also dispelled just like elementals, and they also die easily, and two holy words pretty much kills all animates.


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 Post subject: Re: Dispel v. Elementals
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:01 pm 
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Joined: Sat Feb 15, 2003 7:28 pm
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Can charms still be cancelled?
If so, this seems like the exact same thing as dispel.


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 Post subject: Re: Dispel v. Elementals
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:18 pm 
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They can be remove compulsion'd. Can't recall if cancellation still works on them. They can also be dispelled, too.


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 Post subject: Re: Dispel v. Elementals
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:42 pm 
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Yeah they can be canceled. This is why greybie charmies are the best option if there is going to be lightie or darkie holy words going off.


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 Post subject: Re: Dispel v. Elementals
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:50 am 
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Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2002 10:34 am
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Location: Los Angeles, CA
They cannot be cancelled, they can be dispelled. Holy word dispels.


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 Post subject: Re: Dispel v. Elementals
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:37 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 1:50 pm
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Location: Canada
SK Character: Karsh
Terrus wrote:
They cannot be cancelled, they can be dispelled. Holy word dispels.


Charms can be cancelled. Holy word dispels and casts cancellation as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Dispel v. Elementals
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:23 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:41 am
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SK Character: Cyndane - Talys
Charm can be cancelled/dispelled/remove compulsioned.

This is why shortly after the change to charm people were carrying around pill items with double strong cancellation spells on them, since "eat" is one of the few things you can do while charmed.


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 Post subject: Re: Dispel v. Elementals
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:54 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2004 8:43 am
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Location: Columbia, South Carolina
SK Character: Pilnor, Surrit, Berr, Rall
Kin wrote:
But no, seriously, no other class has to contend with such a massive limitation.
Already been said, but every other charm spell can be dispelled with dispel magic/remove compulsion/cancellation, and unlike elementals, the only mitigating factor there is the save of the charm itself (And knock yourself out if you are going to bother putting +will on your charms).

Controls and charms also turn against the caster when dispelled or cancelled, unlike elementals. Every charm except elementals can typically be taken out with a single petrification scroll too.

Not to mention that MR barbs can't cancel elementals but they can cancel controls and charms lolol


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