Shattered Kingdoms

The issue is one of damage output, not damage absorption. Why should a necromancer get 50+ melee attacks/round?



You can do two controls. It's not always the strategically optimal choice.



Controls generally have the same damage output as animated wraiths, but with more HP. Solo PvE is a function of the necro's ability to take NPCs out so fast with amazing damage output. If they lose a wraith in the fray, they can now make a new one with the NPC they just killed. The issue with controls is primarily a builder issue. Imms need to not stick powerful controls in easy spots (the same can be said of charms; it would be cool if the best charms were actually more challenging to acquire). The issue with wraiths is a coding issue. They allow necromancers to put out too much damage too fast. Seriously, there is no reason for them to be two-rounding the entire world with their NPCs.



By that logic all deep-elves, hellions and evil priests should be able to overwhelm things with massive damage output since BoG is a threat to them. Needless to say, that logic is flawed. Much of this is countered by necromancers being diabolic. The diabolic alignment gives players huge leeway to exploit tactics that other alignments cannot. To a lesser extent, this is true for other evil alignments. You have more tactical options than light aura characters. The price you pay for this in some cases is being susceptible to holy magic. You are right that an unprepared necromancer can get taken down by certain abilities, but so can any unprepared character. That's not relevant to the discussion, and 2-3 BoGs would not take down a necromancer who is actually trying to win.. While it is true that necromancers also have an easier time ganking unprepared people since they can run them over in a couple of rounds, it is also true that a prepared necromancer going up against a prepared opponent is going to have the advantage every time. Even if the opponent is a paladin.

10! is a rather large number.

Nah, it is only 3,628,800. We have counts like that daily, Ardith!

Aren't there logs of Ithorim tanking wraiths fairly easily?

I believe 50+ attacks is a rather extreme exaggeration. I am pretty sure that even with fury, wraiths don't get 4 attacks with things like hunting spears, do they? Which if I recall is a popular necromancer weapon. Even so, you can only make 8 wraiths, 8x4=24. Tack on 10 more from 2 controls, if the necromancer uses them. And if anything besides a deep-elf can use 2, why doesn't Surrit? That seems like a no-brainer.

Wraiths put out a ton of damage in PvE, yes (so does a sorceror with Lathron and Losquaty), but they are pretty easy to nullify in PvP with things like ironguard or just the proper buffs and mood defensive. Wraiths "miss" a lot against PCs. From logs, it appears controls put out far more damage and are much more accurate than wraiths. I've always thought wraiths have some sort of innate penalty to accuracy somehow.

Are you threatening me?

But, it wasn't just Ithorim. It was Ithorim with at least three others.

Why does it take an entire party of PC's to deal with 1 PC?

This is a very good question for SK as a whole at the moment and doesn't pertain to necromancers at all, since noone ever seems to PK without assistance.

Aren't there multiple logs of Alaric steamrolling multiple opposing melee chars with healers? The answer seems to be that most of the game does not "try" at PvP and expects to just win because they have more characters.

Edit : Wow, and there's a log up of a necromancer and a melee PC dying to just 2 enemies and a couple guard NPCs. See, people. If you actually put in some effort, you can get things done.

I don't know of any logs showing Ithorim soloing a competent (at the same level as Ithorim's player) necromancer and his army. Maybe there is one somewhere, but I don't know it.



You can actually get more than 50 attacks. I'm just being conservative here. Keep in mind, too, that weapon speed can now be enchanted for, so that number just got bigger.



A sorcerer with Losquaty and Lathron is no comparison to an undead army. The damage output is, in fact, 20%. So if a wraith army could 3-round something, Losquaty and Lathron would need 15 rounds. Do you think they will be able to tank their way through a tough area taking 5x as long to beat up the NPCs there? Can you replenish them with the corpses you leave behind if they die? Really, this isn't even an argument. Not to mention holding two charms is incredibly taxing, easily disrupted, and not even possible for many sorcerers. Plus, some other guy could already have Lathron.

I am pretty sure you are giving wraiths far too much credit.

1 wraith does not = Lathron in terms of damage output.

I'm not even sure 4 wraiths = Lathron damage output.

I have seen Lathron in action a lot. That dood is pretty rad.

As for why necromancers are slightly elevated over the other classes, it's likely because of things like tools who run around ganking newbs they see with level 5 zombies. Meaning, Necromancers have far more innate enemies than others. Or are supposed to. I blame things like the IMMs inducting necros into the Druids, and the Nashira faith turning lazy.

Necromancers have been nerfed into oblivion as it is. I look back on the days when animate didn't even take concentration, and you could get 100 wraiths, and just am amazed at this thread.

Turning back on topic......
Adding some *limited* weapons that could strike into the ethereal plane would be REALLY nice.