Ethereal and necros

Baldric · **Posted:** Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:26 am

What Zerel's Player Actually wrote:

For everyone who talks about necromancers, I will put this here as an example of why necromancers are hilariously worse than a warlock:

A GM necromancer's undead vs. level 12 cockroaches in the sewers of exile:

Quote:

A log of Tarconus + Vinoria forcing Surrit + Deamuce + undead army to recall in a single round of combat

In under a round, they are all dead, yet the cockroaches survive for another HW. They would have had more uses in the past with them not being capped, but now? Animated undead are 100% useless for PVP other than as a distraction - anyone who says otherwise is either a liar or has an ulterior motive to keep them nerfed.

A 30 second code fix to this would be simple: buff wraith HP 25-35%, remove dispel from affecting them OR uncap the amount once again. You don't need them stupid-powerful like the days of old, but a necro should be able to fight better than a sorcerer can. Lathron is worth 8 wraiths in a fight easily, and won't run away when a HW or two is cast. What other real damage spells do necromancers even possess other than undead? FoD - That's it. Energy drain is the only other alternative and it is the easiest to resist of all the necro's spell set. Sorcs get to choose from petrification, acid blast, and even colorspray. Why on earth play a necromancer when a sorc is vastly superior in PVP, has awesome utility, and can't be bolt of gloried to boot?

Till then a necro must:

1) Rely on shrink/enlarge, enchant weapon, armor/resists for each undead to prep -- all of which necromancers do not have
2) Do it all under an hour (when the undead fall back to the ground)
3) In a fight resist the 90000 ways you can kill a necromancer in under 2 rounds: direct hits, circlestab/backstab, holy word suddenly leaving him in front rank (all animates/controls dispelled), arrows/ranged, spells, etc etc
4) Finish the fight before 2 holy words can be cast, in this case there are even scrolls of holy word. Why not make a bolt of glory staff while we're at it?

No other caster has to worry about this defense AND offense to boot because they all get some form of protection, whether its mirror image or etherealform or stoneskin or ironguard or ...and the list goes on and on.

FoD is far too easy to resist and that's a whole other topic. Necromancers are a joke and that is precisely why no competent player has made one in the past several years that anyone actually was afraid of.

Seriously, name me a power-horse necromancer in the last 2 years who was more vicious to face than someone like Pilnor, Vaalim, or Baba?

Edit: Just to preempt, I know you can get some of these things via scrolls or wands, but my point is that no other class has to do so much preparing, rely on so many others, and still get absolutely decimated in 2-3 rounds of combat.

I challenge Dulrik himself to make a necromancer and try to kill Baldric's dwarf, Tarconus. If he can succeed in doing this, I will relent that necromancers are perfectly balanced. This isn't because I'm being :smug: it's because I don't think many folks understand how difficult/silly it is to be a necromancer. But then again, I also think the same way about warlocks now too.

So this maybe moot.

And there's nothing in his afterlife thread about necros being OP.

There are some big names who have talked about necros being too strong, though. Tragonis, Algon, (I think) Jerinx, and Ardith come to mind.

evena · **Posted:** Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:58 am

Edoras wrote:

There's a difference between being an elitist and recognizing BS when you see it.

This reminds me of that time when ilky was all like, "Ohai gaiz, the Adept spellset am so w34k against other cabalz!!" and everyone was all like, "STFU noob, you don't know what you're talking about because U sux." and then Thran was like, "Ohey, ilky, you sux, Imma show you how it's done. . . . . Oh, wait. This skillset am [REDACTED] . How about I disband the cabal in protest." then everyone else was like, "Oh, hey that spellset must have sucked, but not as bad as ilky."

Superman · **Joined:** Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:05 pm **Posts:** 152

The example of the wraiths dying to Holy Word before the level 5 cockroaches in the sewer newb zone is hilarious.

Also, who cares about the skillset? It's a shame people can't play the game in a faction without complaining about their abilities. Try joining a faction for the RP, maybe. Now we're stuck with the lame Crucible. Thanks.

Opey · **Posted:** Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:02 am

The Crucible is only lame because of the players in the cabal.

Sargas · **Posted:** Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:07 am

To note, a character class being difficult to pilot but having an inordinately high ceiling in terms of power doesn't make it balanced, it just means the power is mostly unavailable to the vast majority of people.

evena · **Posted:** Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:44 am

I TOTALLY joined for the RP. In fact, Aerlyn was SUPPOSED to be a Harlequin.

However, joining for the RP doesn't mean I have to be blind to the mechanics, nor should you expect me to be, StylesP.

evena · **Posted:** Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:53 am

The actual argument I was making is that my VALID POINT on the skillset was completely ignored because I wasn't one of SK's top-10 PvP players.

Opey · **Posted:** Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:12 pm

And female.

Styles · **Posted:** Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:15 pm

Edoras wrote:

Baldric's merc beat the mess out of Zerel quite a few times, my one fight with Xunux on my gnome merc (I had one priest backing me up) was a cakewalk as I never went below 80% and Xunux almost died.
My gnome hammer merc fought Kythroghalas + guard NPC + undead army SOLO and Kythroghalas ended up in jail.
Nivienne just got smacked down yesterday by Ardith because she got 2 rounded by BoG.
Surrit most certainly can't run around the mud and just kill whoever he wants with no risk whatsoever, despite what Jerinx may lead people to believe. Surrit has died and been driven away a great deal of times, and there are certain builds that I cannot engage against on their home turf except in very specific circumstances.

None of this is relevant to anything. To say that Nivienne got beat "because she got 2 rounded by BoG" is laughable. She got beat because she was sleeping on the other side of a rift with no wraith army, five people walked in on her, and she failed to zap her wand. The funniest part is that when a group of five prepped characters attacked a sleeping necro, one of their people still died. What other class can you roll up on 5 on 1 while they're asleep and still have one of your party die? This is precisely why these anecdotal accounts are worthless. You aren't getting the whole story, and you don't know what mistakes the necromancers in question made. To look at what you just said about Nivienne, you might get the impression that a paladin walked in solo against a prepped necromancer and won. It couldn't be further from the truth. What errors did the rest of the necromancers in those examples commit? Who knows. What were the real circumstances of the PvP encounters? Again, who knows. So please just quit posting these irrelevant examples that prove nothing.

Quote:

Since the last nerfs to necros, there's been a lot of time, and not a lot of successful necros. Styles might say that's just because no one has played them properly.

I think Achernar addressed that in his most recent post. As for the rest of your post... *yawn*. You're just repeating the same nonsense that has already been shown to be a lot of BS, and you still ignore PvE. But, I guess that's not unexpected, since you seem to believe a huge PvE imbalance in favor of necros is somehow alright.

Edoras · **Posted:** Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:30 pm

Unless you've actually had experience playing as a necro or against necros, then please stop acting as if you have any idea of what you're talking about. And since you are clearly too scared of people finding out who you are to validate your opinion, that isn't going to happen.

Shattered Kingdoms

Ethereal and necros

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