Code Update 12/10/2012 - Necromancer Debate

Galactus · **Joined:** Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:21 pm **Posts:** 906

Wasn't the massive number of NPCs in Tribs w/HW done to help against the necroraiding? If so, wouldn't it now be advisable to lower the number of trib NPCs with HW?

Note Baldric, I asked a question, not stating what could be fact or non-fact. Even if it is a non-fact, still asking a question if that would help.

I agree that poison should land more often... Not sure if dmg should be fiddled with since it does lower str which does stack with weaken, if I remember correctly.

Edoras · **Posted:** Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:17 pm

Weaken is a million times more useful than poison in terms of reducing strength. If a necro wins a fight because some unarmed wights poisoned his enemy to death, or because he cast poison at an enemy and messed them up, then he could have won some other much simpler way, like maybe going afk since his opponent is clearly bad.

Dulrik · **Posted:** Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:20 pm

Edoras wrote:

Yes, I do very much realize that tanks need more than their HP to survive. However, that is all that zombies have. They do not have weapon skills. They do not have shield block. They do not have parry. They do not do damage. They just get the crap beat out of them and die. They are high HP warlock NPCs that get destroyed by holy word and BoG.

They are not warlock NPCs. Actually, quite a bit of work went into this, in that I basically invented NPC classes just for this spell (although after testing, perhaps they will be used more widely in the game). There is now a peasant, hunter and soldier class. Its easy to see these classes do not have skills like bash, but other things are going to require more analysis on your part (and probably more tweaking on mine).

Even the peasant class gets parry and shield block, but they don't get them until a higher level than any PC class. They also don't get every weapon at level 1 but some of the classes do get spears and pole arms at higher level. I'll let you figure out who and when. But this also makes the level of the undead much more important, even for zombies.

Galactus · **Joined:** Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:21 pm **Posts:** 906

Edoras, that is why I am asking. Couldn't the buff to poison be to make it land easier and increase its str debuff? If that was the case, would it help?

Does the skeletons have parry or shield block perchance? Or even xbow access?

[edit] Just read D's post. Still don't know about xbow, but polearms, parry and shield block can help with damage and survivability.

mundufisen · **Posted:** Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:26 pm

Galactus wrote:

StylesP wrote:

So, don't use animates basically. Necros aren't going to be very useful anymore, but they're not unplayable or anything. Edoras just needs to do some releasing of aggro undead with weapons in inns.

What's with the people complaining about bard concentration in this thread? There weren't any changes made there. How are humans suddenly bad bards when they weren't before? And who cares even if they are, it's nice to not have human be the best racial choice for something somewhere in the game.

Galactus, do you even pay attention to what is going on. With the recent change to enchant, stats should never be a point of complaining, for any class anymore. Find a sorceror or priest to enchant a stat mod for you.

Can you take one change, one that is a buff to the class you play without complaining about that not being good enough?

I do pay attention, StylesP, but you can't enchant for art. Something that was considered useful for bards buuuuut was literally last on the list of trains due to needing mana, move even more.

lolwut, who ever trained moves as a bard? I've played 3 different bards and never once trained move, and never had problems with PE.

Dulrik · **Posted:** Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:27 pm

Edoras wrote:

Good thing I got poison buffed though. Now I can kill people who let me cast poison at them 6 times (That's how long it took to work on me) and then escape from me at 22% health and then sit in a corner for 3 minutes while they go afk.

I don't want to make you feel unwelcome at all. But if you are gonna be a negative nancy, then you will never see any new possibilities -- only loss from how it used to be.

Poison and plague can be cast successfully on someone up to 5 times and each time it gets stronger. Will you normally manage to cast it 5x on someone? Of course not. But a pack of ghouls could well do this, and at a higher level than they ever could before.

Addendum: Also note that poison and plague are bites and so they DO still work even if you hand them a weapon.

Chem · **Joined:** Fri Feb 08, 2008 6:04 pm **Posts:** 1017

I'd be willing to give Necromancers a shot, but sadly after my Sorcerer I have lost all desire to roll a casting class aside from a Priest. Though it would be nice to see what they are no capable aside from Edoras's bitching of being owned by 2 classes in the game. Last I checked not everything Holy Words.

Styles · **Posted:** Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:29 pm

Edoras wrote:

Weaken is a million times more useful than poison in terms of reducing strength. If a necro wins a fight because some unarmed wights poisoned his enemy to death, or because he cast poison at an enemy and messed them up, then he could have won some other much simpler way, like maybe going afk since his opponent is clearly bad.

Another excellent point. It's not like an enemy can be both weakened by a necromancer and poisoned by his undead. It's either/or, right?

Galactus · **Joined:** Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:21 pm **Posts:** 906

mundufisen wrote:

Galactus wrote:

StylesP wrote:

So, don't use animates basically. Necros aren't going to be very useful anymore, but they're not unplayable or anything. Edoras just needs to do some releasing of aggro undead with weapons in inns.

What's with the people complaining about bard concentration in this thread? There weren't any changes made there. How are humans suddenly bad bards when they weren't before? And who cares even if they are, it's nice to not have human be the best racial choice for something somewhere in the game.

Galactus, do you even pay attention to what is going on. With the recent change to enchant, stats should never be a point of complaining, for any class anymore. Find a sorceror or priest to enchant a stat mod for you.

Can you take one change, one that is a buff to the class you play without complaining about that not being good enough?

I do pay attention, StylesP, but you can't enchant for art. Something that was considered useful for bards buuuuut was literally last on the list of trains due to needing mana, move even more.

lolwut, who ever trained moves as a bard? I've played 3 different bards and never once trained move, and never had problems with PE.

I haven't trained moves on my current bard because there is wayyyyy to many other things to spend my trains on.

Dulrik · **Posted:** Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:31 pm

B00ts wrote:

So, skeletons are the "tanks" now? Wow. That's funny.

Not at all. I would say skeletons are your striker/dps NOT your tank. They are not at all the same thing.

Shattered Kingdoms

Code Update 12/10/2012 - Necromancer Debate

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