Shattered Kingdoms

I've personally never liked the idea of cooldowns in fantasy games. It just doesn't make sense. I'm all like "I want to drink ye flask" and it will say "But you can't drink ye flask, you have to wait 5 seconds." And I say.... riiiiight.

If something like this were to be implemented, I'd prefer a soft cap on the effectiveness of successive vials/herbs, such that every vial you quaff/herb you eat lowers the strength of the next vial you quaff/herb you eat by 1-2 levels: Have it stack sequentially like fatigue, but only last for 10 seconds or so per vial. That way, sure, you can quaff 20 heal vials in a single fight, but by the end of it they won't be doing anything and you'll need to give your body a few IC hours rest from the massive amount of magic you've been overloading yourself with.

Although honestly I don't think that any sort of cooldown is necessary. There already is a built-in feature for keeping people from spam quaffing heals, it's just not taken advantage of because the cabal's dead. Adding in an increased lag on eat seems fine to me, since said feature of SK probably doesn't apply to MR barbarians anyway.

Edoras, the first two paragraphs of your post are definitely a place where we share common ground.

I'm through arguing on this point, as I mentioned. But I would like to see some more evidence that spamming "eat mistletoe" is overpowered. Right now, I don't agree that it is for reasons I have mentioned already.

But just because I disagree doesn't mean I'm going to argue about it, nor will I call anyone stupid who disagrees with me. I'll admit that I am currently biased about this particular item since my current character is an MR barbarian.

I think that spamming mistletoe is overpowered because it can heal you for more than quaffing double heals does for a normal barbarian/mercenary, and obtaining mistletoe is a lot easier than obtaining double healing vials. MR barbarians should not get to have their cake and eat it too. I think the lag on eat should be the same as the lag on vials, whereas currently it seems to be about half that. Obviously, the mistletoe herb wasn't intended to be utilized for this purpose.

It's overpowered, bro.

I agree it's overpowered. I've also been pondering a reflex/mr barb since the changes, so in the spirit gameplay usually goes, I say leave it!

I like the idea of eat/quaff going on diminishing returns, say -3 spell lvls per eat/cast stacking similarly to fatigue except on the fast timer instead of the tick timer for wearing off.

Is that actually true? Keep in mind that these percentages are skewed by how the MR barbarian had to spend trains on MR which normal barbarians generally spend on HP. So even if the MR barbarian is healing the same percentage, he is not healing the same number of HP. How much does a weak double-heal heal for a normal barbarian? How much does a strong double-heal heal for a normal barbarian? Also, exactly how many mistletoe can be eaten per heal potion quaffed? How much does a mistletoe give a MR barbarian?

I think we really need to get the facts straight before we start making suggestions on what is or is not broken.

I also don't think that adding lag to eat is the right way to go about things. That also penalizes scouts, which isn't something we need to be doing. The better solution would be to tweak how much healing you get from MR. But, before anything, it's important to get all the facts straight.

I'm really curious how people justify comparing a mistletoe (which is incredibly easy for any scout to get in bunches of 100s, as proven by "c loc mistletoe") to a double heal vial and going "lol, double heal vial is better than mistletoe".

On top of that curiousity, I'm amused by these same people being among the players who would never ever put forth the effort to get double heal vials. Because it is not easy and it's not cheap.

Who said Styles was Pray For Rain? Nice call.

Eat needs more lag, plain and simple. How is that a penalty for scouts, when they aren't ever the ones spam eating things? Nice misdirect attempt, though, I guess. Eat should have the same lag as quaff. Not sure why this is even up for debate. Bam, problem solved, and it's not a "wimp" to anyone. It's balance.

Styles is apparently Dulrik's best friend, and just spouts nonsense trying to act like he's not biased. How are you going to come and talk about "getting the facts" and poor MR barbs have less hp trains, and how it's the percentage not actually amount of hp. And ignore the glaring fact that MR barbs can increase how much they get healed by something if they aren't running around naked. That alone just renders the whole "look at the actual hpz, not the %" thing beyond moot, and makes it pretty clear you are grasping at straws.

I don't understand how you can't see that my solution is better. My way in no way hurts scouts and makes MR barbarians expend more resources to get the same amount of healing. If you can eat 3 mistletoe per round that each give 10% or 2 mistletoe per round that each get 15%, then what's the difference in terms of healing rates? This is basic arithmetic, man, and my solution is a harder wimp to MR barbarians than introducing eat lag is. Think about it.

Of course, all of this is if the facts even support the case that mistletoe is overpowered compared to quaffing heals. We just need to know the numbers. If you would like to make a meaningful contribution, you could start supplying some actual facts.

Due to the difference in effort and time involved in acquiring them. A mistletoe shouldn't heal anywhere near as much as a weak healing vial, let alone a double healing vial.

To say otherwise is pretty crazy, and it's only being defended by the players of MR barbs, oddly.