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 Post subject: Re: Giant Warlocks
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 7:57 am 
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Edoras wrote:
Hold on, so you rolled a giant warlock and you're complaining that it wasn't very good, and that the warlock class should be buffed because of how bad giant warlocks are?

No, not at all. I really don't think that lowering the concentration the concentration on healing rays, burning hands and breath of life is going to qualify as a buff. Will it be beneficial to non giant warlocks? Sure, but so would giving them 2 platinum in their newbie trust fund, but that's not really going to make much of a difference.
Dulrik wrote:
Just in case this gets raised again, giant warlocks are what are known as an 'advanced' combo. You can't choose this combination if you identify yourself as a newbie (to keep them from screwing themselves).

I get that, but I'm really curious when the last time, besides Gungja, someone rolled a giant warlock and then actually played them PRIOR to age tick. Is that really how you want it to be? I'm not saying make the combo a cakewalk, as I do think it'd be a shame if we saw scores of giant warlocks running around. But look at Edoras's quote and look at people discussing rolling them. They invariably state that they roll the char then shelve it until the age tick, which these changes MIGHT make someone who isn't going for the Fists reconsider doing. Gungja went from being rather unenjoyable to an absolute blast as a Fist, and I think I could have made him a lot better too, if I would have enchanted for AP as opposed to MR. But I don't think that's the way it should be. I would think this would be very minor changes that would only apply in a very limited set of circumstances, namely that people who rolled giant warlocks would reconsider shelving them until the age tick, but I really won't mind either way, as I've haven't really played in months, and if for some strange reason I ever rerolled a giant warlock, I can say without a doubt I would aim the character for the Fists once again.


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 Post subject: Re: Giant Warlocks
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:09 am 
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I actually think he has a valid point. Just reducing the concentration on conjure elemental isn't going to hurt anyone or be a huge buff to warlocks in any way. It's not like he's asking for the cast time to be made half a round to where they can summon one instantly or so. The concentration for summoning one is pretty high. 4 light spells and my sprite with max int still has to sit to summon one. I imagine a Delf has no qualms with it whatsoever, but why create a class combination that can't fully utilize the entire spellset? It really doesn't make any sense.

Gnome mercs are viable, though hard. Hell, look at what Edoras done with Pilnor. I don't think that changing a few spells concentration so a lower int class can actually use them before an age tick is unreasonable. It won't really affect warlocks in any way except in the rare cases they get taunted by a swashie.
[shrug]


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 Post subject: Re: Giant Warlocks
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:21 am 
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Still waiting for dwarf and centaur bards to be viable, and just like giant warlocks, I doubt it will ever happen.


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 Post subject: Re: Giant Warlocks
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:56 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 09, 2004 8:43 am
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Location: Columbia, South Carolina
SK Character: Pilnor, Surrit, Berr, Rall
I think he has a valid point in that giant warlocks are bad, same with gnome mercs and centaur/dwarf bards or dwarf necromancers or elf mercenaries.

Some people like rolling class/race combinations that are underpowered on purpose. I get that. I've done it. All I'm saying is that when you read the "if I were small I would only see trees. That is why giants are better than not-giants" quote in the giants helpfile and thought "Yes, that is the race that I want to pick for my casting class" then I hope you understood that your character would mechanically suck and that there's nothing wrong with that.


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 Post subject: Re: Giant Warlocks
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:42 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 02, 2012 4:58 am
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Location: Rolling in the Grave
SK Character: Gailehn, Stephanov
I miss Gunja. I realized the character started to disappear when the changes to religious spells came into play, and it just became unrealistic to continue to find me or Keito to keep up with the necessary int.

I also absolutely appreciated the effort the player put into writing.... badly. :) A true work of art.


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 Post subject: Re: Giant Warlocks
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:36 pm 
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Edoras wrote:
I think he has a valid point in that giant warlocks are bad, same with gnome mercs and centaur/dwarf bards or dwarf necromancers or elf mercenaries.

Some people like rolling class/race combinations that are underpowered on purpose. I get that. I've done it. All I'm saying is that when you read the "if I were small I would only see trees. That is why giants are better than not-giants" quote in the giants helpfile and thought "Yes, that is the race that I want to pick for my casting class" then I hope you understood that your character would mechanically suck and that there's nothing wrong with that.


Theres a difference in being mechanically inferior and not having access to your skillset until after you age tick. That's what I was talking about. He has a very valid point in the fact that a Giant warlock can't use an elemental, a Jman level spell, until after they age tick. There isn't really any reason for it. Even at max int and while sitting, they can't cast it until they age tick which makes no sense.

Pilnor had access to his full skillset without an age tick. Sure they have a weakness to pound damage and are size small and such, but how would Pilnor turned out if he had to wait til he age ticked to use retreat? It's the same concept here. It's not that they're mechanically inferior, it's the fact that they can't even fully utilize their skillset as they should be able to.


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 Post subject: Re: Giant Warlocks
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 3:58 pm 
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You gain access to bash and enhanced damage as well as the size bonus damage to melee at the cost of concentration and can still cast magma spray.


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 Post subject: Re: Giant Warlocks
PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 5:53 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2002 4:00 pm
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Location: Redwood City, California
Lambeauistic wrote:
Dulrik wrote:
Just in case this gets raised again, giant warlocks are what are known as an 'advanced' combo. You can't choose this combination if you identify yourself as a newbie (to keep them from screwing themselves).

I'd be curious what other race/class combos fall under this 'advanced' tag, besides necromancers as a whole of course.

I think it's currently just those two: giant warlocks and <any race> necromancers.


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 Post subject: Re: Giant Warlocks
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 6:44 am 
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I would suggest making it so newbies can't roll centaur bards.

Also, dwarf is only a decent choice for mercenary and barbarian. Scout/priest/hellion are pretty terrible. I'm not sure if there's a need for a hardcoded restriction against letting newbies fail with these choices, though.


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 Post subject: Re: Giant Warlocks
PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 12:31 pm 
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Dwarf hellion is not a terrible choice.


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