Shattered Kingdoms

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 Post subject: Re: IMM Favoritism And Hatred And/Or Alignment Adherence Whi
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:07 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:26 pm
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"tribunals don't care about good or evil - they are all about the law."

That seems a terribly analytical view for what is supposed to be a consistent and presumably non-computer fantasy world.

Those laws are put in place by whoever the ruling entities are, whether its the king of Taslamar or the Council of Necromancers. And those ruling bodies will have their own interests and ambitions, all of which would correlate with their alignment. The necromancers certainly don't have the citizen's best interests at heart.

If the law suddenly changed, would all the guard NPCs just keep following blindly? If they are looked at as just lines of code, then yes. But Dulrik has also said that NPCs are to be treated as living beings in a living world.
If Queen Serena was hit with a brick and decided to let necromancers prance about Exile, undead in tow, would all the paladins in the Peacekeepers just let them? Of course not. Nor would the queen ever do such a thing, because she would be influenced by her alignment.

It also ignores the fact that people use political or military office or station for personal gain all the time. An ambitious and ruthless person with no qualms about enforcing terribly unjust or downright cruel laws could easily use the Black Hand as a route to power. Would they still have to enforce the law? Well yeah. Presumably if they didn't, they'd be kicked out.


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 Post subject: Re: IMM Favoritism And Hatred And/Or Alignment Adherence Whi
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:14 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2002 9:59 am
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I think someone needs to re-spark the flame of unadulterated lightie on lightie violence.


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 Post subject: Re: IMM Favoritism And Hatred And/Or Alignment Adherence Whi
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:16 pm 
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ObjectivistActivist wrote:
And yes, tribunal NPCs should follow the orders of their superior officers because, again in Dulrik's words, "tribunals don't care about good or evil - they are all about the law."

Quote me only all you like. Dulrik has, once again, pre-emptively invalidated your arguments.

Another nonsensical argument. You are trying to use the limitations of AI in 2013 to justify an internally inconsistent position. In fact, no paladin will take orders from evildoers or join with an evil cause (or get punished if they do). This is why we do not see paladins in the MC. These same paladins will not take orders from an evil superior. As has already been stated: alignment comes first. Thus it makes no sense for a peacekeeper NPC to take orders from an evil character. We as players are more sophisticated than NPC AI so it falls to us to uphold this internal consistency in cases where the NPCs cannot.

Some of these limitations are hard coded (a certain weapon zaps certain alignments) but others are not. It doesn't mean anything that some are and some are not. Just because the code allows something does not mean a player should do it.

The IMMs have made it clear there are deficiencies in alignment adherence. Many of these stem from exactly this phenomenon of inappropriate faction leadership. Just try having evil guys lead evil factions, good guys lead good factions, and grey guys lead grey factions and watch the problems start to evaporate.


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 Post subject: Re: IMM Favoritism And Hatred And/Or Alignment Adherence Whi
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:18 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2006 7:47 pm
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SK Character: Amorette
Galactus wrote:
ladyjennbo wrote:
I don't think Galactus or jreid know what they're talking about in Reinald's afterlife thread.


Then again, you never do.


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 Post subject: Re: IMM Favoritism And Hatred And/Or Alignment Adherence Whi
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:19 pm 
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I think this thread could be greatly improved with a 5 paragraph, rational-yet-emotionally-charged response from someone like jerinx or Edoras. So that people can respond with "eff you!"


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 Post subject: Re: IMM Favoritism And Hatred And/Or Alignment Adherence Whi
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:21 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 1:50 pm
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SK Character: Karsh
Again, there are no auras to factions. Any argument based on that premise is flawed from the outset.


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 Post subject: Re: IMM Favoritism And Hatred And/Or Alignment Adherence Whi
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:22 pm 
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ladyjennbo wrote:
I think this thread could be greatly improved with a 5 paragraph, rational-yet-emotionally-charged response from someone like jerinx or Edoras. So that people can respond with "eff you!"


I think that would take a lot of effort on their behalf. I think it's not worth it.


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 Post subject: Re: IMM Favoritism And Hatred And/Or Alignment Adherence Whi
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:24 pm 
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ladyjennbo wrote:
I think this thread could be greatly improved with a 5 paragraph, rational-yet-emotionally-charged response from someone like jerinx or Edoras. So that people can respond with "eff you!"

I would prefer some input from StylesP.


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 Post subject: Re: IMM Favoritism And Hatred And/Or Alignment Adherence Whi
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:25 pm 
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I think daya.. I mean styles is trolling at this point


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 Post subject: Re: IMM Favoritism And Hatred And/Or Alignment Adherence Whi
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:26 pm 
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I think that it's too hot outside today, it's making people irritable and act weird.


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