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 Post subject: Re: Crafting/Tradeskills - What does it mean to you?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:39 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:21 pm
Posts: 906
In tied with the recipes, some or even many can be tied with quests. Some that are solo for >Jman, or solo exclusive (Showing you are a master of your craft similar to the warlock gauntlet), and for jman - master recipes that needs a special component, tie them to a quest one with multiple paths to the same thing. As in you get to make choices in the quest line but in the end, you end up with one of those special ingredients. Would also be great if some of those recipe quests were even tied to skills/spells that aren't actually used for killing purposes (detects, sneak/hide, tame, ..., ...).

The one thing about any of these uncommon to rare ingredients that should be done is that they can't be tied to some X can only exist. If that does, the loot problem comes back and even worse.

I would also love to be able to have perm housing for those who have age ticked and pay the upkeep. If that is done, people then could get crafting recipes for furniture and other household stuffs.


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 Post subject: Re: Crafting/Tradeskills - What does it mean to you?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 3:19 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2012 3:54 am
Posts: 606
SK Character: Caric
What I want from a crafting system is something simple to fill in the blanks in gear or story. A more elaborate skin for every class is basically what I look for in SK crafting system. However extending into vials and scrolls trinkets etc. There should be few hard to make items that probably require rare materials aka the material limits the number of X can exist at any one point. In my mind getting good at crafting basically should replace going to the shop and buying crap armor. With Go to the blacksmith and make average armor. I feel this is an awesome chance to cut down the time sink players get stuck with when they want to get "basic armor'. I dont think it should cut into the end game adventure items at all.

What I dont want, hard to find unique quests related to crafting. Crafting skills that require other crafting skills thus forcing people into taking crafting skills they might not want. A craft system that takes longer to do anything than going out and soloing down a few NPCs for the same gear.

I feel their should be a small amount of randomness in crafting. Probably how much innate bonus you can get on a crafted item, vs what kind.

Crafted items should never take the place of end game content unless it costs end game content to get.

Learning how to craft should not be that hard, Probably about the level of bards learning songs. A little tricky to get them all but nothing impossible.

My quick 2 cents


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 Post subject: Re: Crafting/Tradeskills - What does it mean to you?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:23 am 
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Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 2:21 am
Posts: 523
Location: Out and about
SK Character: Xasuki
Something that I would like to see is the fletching skill tweeked just enough to be able to customize your arrows. Something that you can actually identify with picking them up. Like diamond arrows made from oak shaft. Nothing that changes the properties of the arrow at all, just something that makes them YOURS. Ya know? Surely not every fletcher of arrows fletched with the same materials or makes them look the exact same. I don't know that it should really be a crafting skill, but it would be nice to have the change.

Chris


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 Post subject: Re: Crafting/Tradeskills - What does it mean to you?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:11 am 
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Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 8:16 am
Posts: 4124
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
SK Character: Achernar
ObjectivistActivist wrote:
Dulrik wrote:
thing different to every single person.

  • What do you want to see from such a system? (What's the goal of adding crafting?)
  • What all should you be able to make? (Anything? Weapons/armor only? Tools and accessories only?)
  • How good should those items be? (Potentially better than anything found or strictly worse?)
  • How hard should it be? (How many steps? How much resources and time to be invested?)
  • How fixed should the system be? (Duplicate items you've seen? Need to obtain pre-set recipes or plans? Randomly throw things together and see what happens?)


1. Personalization options for gear and items, additional interactions encouraged between characters, equalization between those who know where to get existing items and those who can invest the time and effort to craft similar items.

2. Weapons, armor, magical devices (blank scrolls, empty wands that can be filled, etc), treasures and trinkets with particular base innates. String alterations of existing items (re-coloring, re-naming).

3. Potentially but not necessarily better than anything found. Top-tier crafted items should not be a cake-walk to make, but they should probably meet or exceed existing gear.

4. Find Plan > Learn Plan (permanently) > Resource gathering > construct > imbue. Low-tier items (read: below jman) should take ten to fifteen minutes and a minimal resource requirement. Scale that time and resource investment by 10-20% per status of the item. Make the most powerful plans require specific and difficult to obtain resources.

5. Each character should only be able to learn one type of crafting trade (armor smithing, weapon smithing, wand crafting, scroll preparation, etc), and maybe two minor trades that allow resource gathering (mining, farming, logging, etc). This encourages players to work together to gather resources necessary for differing trades, though I wouldn't say any but the highest tier of plan should require more than 3 types of resources, with the best items requiring 3 common types and 1-2 "unique resources" gathered through mini fetch quests to high-end areas that don't require any particular minor trade to gather. I.E., The Blood of A Lightning God might be called for in a crafting recipe for A Strong Scroll Of Energy, but anyone could gather that resource regardless of minor trade. That would then need to be combined with a quantity of High Grade Wood Pulp (a resource that a logger could farm), one or more Magical Overlay(s) (a resource that a Mystic Smith could farm), and a Chemical Bleach (a resource that an Apothecary could farm).

This means the best items in the game require co-operation to create, involve more time and risk investment, and therefore reap greater rewards, whereas someone looking for a more casual "common merchant" approach could content themselves with "A Weak Scroll of Parchment", that could be crafted using only minor trades that they themselves could farm with.

A list of plans learned, separated by status, should be available to each trade (with each new plan listed as it's found, bought, and read similar to new song lyrics for bards). Each status would have a mastery level associated with it, with the higher-tiered plans being more costly and difficult to master, and each progressive level of mastery providing more reliable results up to a near 100% success rate at Mastered. I.E., JoeSmith knows Craft Brass Hood With Weak Innates, which is a Journeyman plan. He currently can craft Journeyman plans at a Very Good rate. That gives him a 70%-80% chance of success when attempting to make NewbScout a new Brass Hood With Weak Strength Innates.

A fun element to add would be your "random experimentation" option, I think. Though the chance of actually learning a new plan that can reliably be crafted in the future based on experimentation should be pretty low (1-3%), with catastrophic failure results including everything from e-drains, to loss of mastery for the current status of crafting, to final-strike-like death effects. That would be pure gravy, though, and should not be required, only possible if you're willing to take those risks with wild experimentation.

EDIT: I should probably mention that specific areas should be required to make specific kinds of items. A Magical Workshop might be necessary to make blank wands, for example, and a Smith might be necessary to make a sword or piece of armor. Crafting could be handled much like enchanting, so the player would type "Craft <plan name>" and then "JoeSmith would start to build." Lag on builds should scale with the status of the plan, with high tier plans taking as much as two ticks of lag to complete.

+1


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 Post subject: Re: Crafting/Tradeskills - What does it mean to you?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:14 am 
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Joined: Sat May 07, 2005 8:16 am
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Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
SK Character: Achernar
grep wrote:
Let's not beat around a bush. Tradeskills are whatever necessary mechanical costs it takes to give players the MUSH-like ability to manage their own items.

In most environments I think splitting skills up and creating complex recipes would do much to enhance forced interactions. In this environment, I must disagree. The most competitive groups maintain their own self-sufficient resource pools which would not create any actually new interactions if further workloads were placed on them. I think we should fix the existing quests before we go added new quest-like mechanics for complicated crafting recipes, because it stands to reason there are some problems and bad builder habits that would benefit from being honed or corrected before they get their hands on tradeskills.

Many mechanics in SK have a repulsive time-sink component. It would be very nice if tradeskills didn't fall into the same practices. Still, there's way too much building required for me to openly trust the staff to do it right, given how much of building takes place in uncoordinated secrecy. Substantiating this claim would involve posting things on this board that would derail the thread, so I'm leaving that point unexpanded.

It may be best to frame tradeskills as an alternative form of currency. Instead of spending 12 platinum coins on crappy unidentified vendor junk, the player instead assembles a few wood planks and some cobblestone. Instead of gathering money, you gather these various resources.

The essential quality of a tradeskill system is that there are no forced arbitrary scarcity mechanics on components; even if they are made difficult to obtain there is assumed to be an infinite supply. If there were any limitation on tradeskills, it would best be on the "points" any given character had to distribute among any items he or she wanted and, perhaps, along trees of development for various types of items to be crafted... so you get a classless item-creation development tree to frame your available options, and spend your character's point pool based on what you've unlocked and what you've gathered to make an item.

I think the best rule of thumb to lay down for tradeskill discussions is that any tradeskill system should be so accessible and unfettered that all of our staff, including Dulrik, would be able to actively participate in the game with these tradeskills without feeling it was burdensome on their schedules. And that they should.

+1


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 Post subject: Re: Crafting/Tradeskills - What does it mean to you?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:28 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:55 am
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Add 3 new merchant style classes to the game, solely skilled around crafting and gathering with some other sustaining abilities like dodge and such.


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 Post subject: Re: Crafting/Tradeskills - What does it mean to you?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2014 7:42 am 
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Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:41 pm
Posts: 234
Location: New Brunswick, Canada
SK Character: Prindle
I'm not set on the style or type of crafting BUT

I would suggest looking at:

1) Providing enhanced services that are now provided by NPCs.

For example:

You can visit a tailor or blacksmith.

If tailor / blacksmith were crafting tradeskills then I would suggest - higher NPC costs and limited services, such that it promotes player to player interactions for similar styled services.

2) Consider trade skills / crafted items that are must-have for PvP preperations. (Wands, staves, blank scrolls, glass vials for potions) [And similarly you could look at lowering or limiting the availability or quality of non crafted pvp prep items]

Limiting and directing some of these type of pvp consumables to trade skills may not be a bad idea either - for the purpose of directing RP / exploration etc.

3) Focus / Limit access to trade skills based on in game consequences - for example before being eligible to study something like "wand creation" you need to be part of a magic school, cabal or something along those lines. (In other words you need to meet certain criteria, either through rp, or exploration, or questing etc.)

4) More basic tradeskills should be easier to access if you want to learn the skill of blowing glass, that might be easier than say crafting wands or staves.

(Generally the more rewarding a trade skill the more expensive and time consuming it needs to be - building a wand should be expensive, take time to gather materials, etc., because it's going to be potentially more powerful than mending or resizing armor like a blacksmith might - although a blacksmith might be able to craft good armor - in which case that could potentially be powerful and therefore take time, money, energy)


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 Post subject: Re: Crafting/Tradeskills - What does it mean to you?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:27 am 
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Joined: Sun Feb 08, 2004 1:41 pm
Posts: 1085
Location: Hugging a tree
SK Character: Imolth
I am full on board with this, new player run factions can arise, merchants with the sole purpose of gathering vast amounts of gold for forging armor-weapons-magical devices for the players, maybe even using that gold in order to build their own HQs etc. I know it smells MUSH but it is not completely alien to the concept of SK and it might spark a new kind of player more RP oriented. The thief class would get an update and gold would start to mean something even in high levels.


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 Post subject: Re: Crafting/Tradeskills - What does it mean to you?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 5:59 pm 
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Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2014 11:08 am
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Dulrik wrote:

  • What do you want to see from such a system? (What's the goal of adding crafting?)

-Increased options for RP gameplay, something to do aside from XP grind
Quote:
  • What all should you be able to make? (Anything? Weapons/armor only? Tools and accessories only?)

  • -Weapons, Armor, Jewelry, wands, staves, potions, tools, missile weapons and ammo, artisan
    Quote:
  • How good should those items be? (Potentially better than anything found or strictly worse?)

  • -Item quality should be from poor to top quality depending on skill of the crafter and materials used - Items CAN be better or equal to what can be acquired through adventuring but the difficulty of obtaining ingredients should be scaled accordingly.
    Quote:
  • How hard should it be? (How many steps? How much resources and time to be invested?)

  • Basic crafting shouldn't be difficult - a standard sword shouldn't require much resources or time or effort, but that sword shouldn't be any better then what an be bought in a shop
    Quote:
  • How fixed should the system be? (Duplicate items you've seen? Need to obtain pre-set recipes or plans? Randomly throw things together and see what happens?)

  • Basic recipes should be buyable for types of items capable of being created (ie a recipe for a longsword is a recipe for a longsword weather it be made of adamantium or of zinc) but for effects an item has should allow for those effects not 'needing' a recipe but being extremely helpful if one is available (meaning you can throw things together and get an effect but some or all those items could wind up being wasted and it would have been more helpful if you had a specific recipe)


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