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 Post subject: Re: HRO flags
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 3:49 pm 
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Dulrik wrote:
grep wrote:
Dulrik wrote:
There are probably also some characters that don't know they are Heroes yet. If you haven't logged into all your non-retired characters recently, I would recommend doing so.

People weren't asked for permission to be flagged?

No. And that's a very odd expectation to even bring up.


In Joseph Campbell's acclaimed The Hero with a Thousand Faces, an examination of many different myths and traditions lead to development of the "monomyth" and a generic, heroic cycle applicable to most of our heroic stories. In the monomyth, one of the first few phases of the hero's journey is "refusal of the call." Naturally, the hero accepts the call and then receives "supernatural aid."

I was interested in the impression that heroes were not, in fact, on any heroic path already as defined by one of the modern era's most prominent sets of tropes. I don't think it's an odd expectation at all from a storytelling standpoint.

It also might not be odd to bring up from a procedural standpoint. What happens if none of the heroes are interested in the RP? The potential for having over-reached with heroes is non-zero.

But I admit my questions are mostly framed in the context of going off of lots of external sources owing to the lack of information. As more is revealed, I'm sure we'll all come to understand it better.


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 Post subject: Re: HRO flags
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 3:49 pm 
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ObjectivistActivist wrote:
I wasn't talking about alignment. I was talking about the fact that there are flagged heroes who display absolutely no heroic qualities in any sense of the word, completely aside from the alignment-based, "heroes are good people" type of definition.

EDIT: To be clear, and to frame my concern in terms of historic SK heroes, these are people who, if it came to a tournament of candidates, would fall so far behind the competition that they wouldn't even register in placement at the end of things.


And I said it will be be further explained at a later date. It's definitely my desire to eventually let you know the criteria so that it drives people to be more "heroic" and we optimize for even better heroes. But that day is not today.


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 Post subject: Re: HRO flags
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 3:54 pm 
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grep wrote:
In Joseph Campbell's acclaimed The Hero with a Thousand Faces, an examination of many different myths and traditions lead to development of the "monomyth" and a generic, heroic cycle applicable to most of our heroic stories. In the monomyth, one of the first few phases of the hero's journey is "refusal of the call." Naturally, the hero accepts the call and then receives "supernatural aid."

I was interested in the impression that heroes were not, in fact, on any heroic path already as defined by one of the modern era's most prominent sets of tropes. I don't think it's an odd expectation at all from a storytelling standpoint.

It also might not be odd to bring up from a procedural standpoint. What happens if none of the heroes are interested in the RP? The potential for having over-reached with heroes is non-zero.

But I admit my questions are mostly framed in the context of going off of lots of external sources owing to the lack of information. As more is revealed, I'm sure we'll all come to understand it better.

Okay, I can see what you are saying, although I'm not familiar with the source. I don't have an answer for you now though. And frankly, will have to think about what the answer should be.


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 Post subject: Re: HRO flags
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 3:55 pm 
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SK Character: Karsh
Dulrik wrote:
ObjectivistActivist wrote:
I wasn't talking about alignment. I was talking about the fact that there are flagged heroes who display absolutely no heroic qualities in any sense of the word, completely aside from the alignment-based, "heroes are good people" type of definition.

EDIT: To be clear, and to frame my concern in terms of historic SK heroes, these are people who, if it came to a tournament of candidates, would fall so far behind the competition that they wouldn't even register in placement at the end of things.


And I said it will be be further explained at a later date. It's definitely my desire to eventually let you know the criteria so that it drives people to be more "heroic" and we optimize for even better heroes. But that day is not today.


It's fairly disappointing that the bar has apparently been set as low as it is. As someone who has competed in, and won a title, in nearly every hero tournament in the history of SK (minus the first iteration where heroes were elevated to lvl 51 since I wasn't playing at the time), it's saddening to see some of the choices that were made for the current iteration. Hero was always something special; with the bar apparently set as low as it has been, it would take some pretty crazy mental gymnastics for me to consider (EDIT:) some of (END EDIT) the current heroes to be something special.


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 Post subject: Re: HRO flags
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 3:59 pm 
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The criteria wasn't number of enlightenments or activity. I suppose I will just have to pretend that these people are heros for now.


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 Post subject: Re: HRO flags
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 4:02 pm 
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trollking wrote:
I suppose I will just have to pretend that these people are heros for now.


This is the major issue with this, especially since there's no known criteria for how they were selected. It's extremely difficult to pretend that a character that has, thus far, displayed literally zero heroic traits is an heroic being. It requires a literal and complete breach of IC thinking.


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 Post subject: Re: HRO flags
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 4:03 pm 
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Alright so if we make you hero, will you stop whining?


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 Post subject: Re: HRO flags
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 4:06 pm 
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Frankly, I'd almost consider it an insult to be made hero with the characters that were selected. I don't want it if I don't know how I earned it. I enjoyed having hero status previously because I actually had to prove myself in PvE, PvP, RP, and social networking to get the title. This current title doesn't appear to be based on anything that would genuinely be considered heroic in-game.

Also not really sure why you're flipping your desk when I'm agreeing with your point, but the forumid should probably give it away.


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 Post subject: Re: HRO flags
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 4:10 pm 
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Define social networking. I think you are on to something here.


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 Post subject: Re: HRO flags
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 4:12 pm 
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I'm going to operate on the assumption that you're not familiar with the last two iterations of hero tournament, as that is the most generous stance to take on your statement.

In-game, characters competing for hero status had to network and convince, bribe, or cajole other characters into wearing purchasable belts that would generate tokens to be totaled with those tokens earned in sponsored-events to gain hero status. Those who could network with the most characters and convince them to support their own character had more points and a better shot at earning hero status (assuming they placed well in the sponsored events). That's what I mean by social networking.


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