Code update 7/27/2014 Q&A

nothingxs · **Posted:** Mon Jul 28, 2014 9:35 am

Dulrik wrote:

FinneyOwnzU wrote:

Code:

Changes:
- Changed color intensity of blocks and special attacks

A few of the new colors are just god awful terrible - especially trip using the $1 color code

whoaboy wrote:

One thing, the new way combat displays makes it impossible to follow as a third party. As a sorc/healer, all the messages of people parrying/shield blocking each other look painfully similar to hitting messages. Please change third party combat messages back.

The updates to the colors was not due to aesthetics (although I tried to pick readable colors that were already in use for other similar skills). The change is functional.

- Dark green ($2) is stil used for defensive skills, but only ones that you are using to protect yourself.
- Light green ($2$I) is now used for defensive skills that stopped your own attacks.
- Defensive skills that are not affecting you personally are now the default color ($A).

- Dark blue ($1) is now used for all offensive skills that you are using yourself.
- Light blue ($1$I) is now used for all offensive skills for which you are on the receiving end.
- Offensive skills that are not affecting you personally are now the default color ($A).

This does mean that an observer loses some context that they had before. While I wasn't out to specifically hurt observers, the point of this change was to make it easier to see the portions of combat that are affecting you personally. By definition, this does turn out to mean glossing over the stuff that you are not doing.

Keep in mind there were only a handful of color options available. ASCII only has 16 colors and the best of them were already in use during combat to highlight something else.

As someone who has trouble reading dark blue and blue on black, I would please request that the offensive skills be changed to something easier to read, like $3/$3$I (which is less murder on my eyes). I'm sure a few people have this problem and there is the option of just editing the color display client-side, but that ruins a lot of gradient work which builders occasionally use. Thanks

woahboy · **Joined:** Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:53 pm **Posts:** 503

Dulrik wrote:

ninja_ardith wrote:

Also, are taunt and heckle able to be used while prone since they are verbal skills?

I hadn't made any changes here with taunt and heckle works the same, so the answer is no. Could that become true? Maybe. I can see arguing for it making sense either way. I doubt swash needs that kind of power-up though. Skills should have answers, and getting knocked prone is a common answer.

Heckle needs to be usable while prone and it should probably ignore deafness.

It appears to be a very nice skill. The problem is, it's an active skill that a swashbuckler is literally required to use to even have a chance at competing with mercs/barbs in PvE tanking or PvP fighting. It's the difference between a swashbuckler dying in 2 rounds, and instead dying in 10 rounds. (Note the swashbuckler is still losing the fight.)

The past few swashbuckler updates have been...nice to see? But don't really address the core problems making the class bad. Juggle? Kip up? The riposte improve? Heckle? All nice. None of them are addressing the issues that wild fighting NPCs (every NPC ever basically) and massive weapons shank swashies, or the fact that wearing mithril (or even energy) and having no shield gives them terrible AC. Heckle tries to help with this, but that's basically just swashie life support. The riposte change seems to have been massive, but that's not stopping a swashie from dying. It did make hedgehog stance a lot nicer though. The two big problems swashies have are unarmed/massive. Riposte isn't much of a factor in helping with either problem.

Hopefully the second new skill is some sort of passive skill, like a third-tier parry skill like 'Dual Parry' that completely negates penalties to parrying unarmed/claws and massives, and potentially passively gives swashies bonus AC while dual wielding, to represent the fact that any incoming blows are at least partially deflected to miss vital spots.

theORplayer · **Joined:** Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:35 am **Posts:** 138

Well, taunt is the issue.

If you make a swashbuckler just as good as a merc/barb in 1 on 1, taunt essentially wins the day.

So if you want buffs to the swashbuckler class, I'd say the no-flee option of taunt has to go. Otherwise, the class suffers the same issue as the other "one button win" class issues such as petrification, finger of death, voodoo, etc.

woahboy · **Joined:** Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:53 pm **Posts:** 503

theORplayer wrote:

Well, taunt is the issue.

If you make a swashbuckler just as good as a merc/barb in 1 on 1, taunt essentially wins the day.

So if you want buffs to the swashbuckler class, I'd say the no-flee option of taunt has to go. Otherwise, the class suffers the same issue as the other "one button win" class issues such as petrification, finger of death, voodoo, etc.

Mercs/barbs have bash, swashies will never be 'as good' in 1vs1. Taunt doesn't stop you from quaffing heals/etc.

Take two barbs, let one use bash and not be able to flee. The other just has to stand there, get bashed, and try to use disarm/kick. Who wins?

theORplayer · **Joined:** Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:35 am **Posts:** 138

If the barb has kip-up, then the barb who gets bashed, of course. As in, the barb who bashes will immediately lose the fight.

What you neglect to consider is that taunt can be used regardless of position or weapon, flight or not, and has int penalties as well as 'no flee'.

It also does not let up after x of 'rounds' like bash and persists for a considerable time.

Also, taunt does not have the ability to set the user prone themselves.

Swashbucklers must remain inferior to barbarians and mercenaries if they are to retain the uberness of taunt and get skills buffs. Otherwise, we're just trading the spots around for 'best warrior class'.

If you disagree with my assessment, then you'd be in favor of losing taunt for bash.

woahboy · **Joined:** Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:53 pm **Posts:** 503

theORplayer wrote:

If the barb has kip-up, then the barb who gets bashed, of course. As in, the barb who bashes will immediately lose the fight.

What you neglect to consider is that taunt can be used regardless of position or weapon, flight or not, and has int penalties as well as 'no flee'.

It also does let up after x of 'rounds', and persists for a considerable time.

Also, taunt does not have the ability to set the user prone themselves.

Swashbucklers must remain inferior to barbarians and mercenaries if they are to retain the uberness of taunt and get skills buffs. Otherwise, we're just trading the spots around for 'best warrior class'.

I must be missing all the bodies that pile up every week because of how OP taunt is.

theORplayer · **Joined:** Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:35 am **Posts:** 138

That's because right now the swashbuckler class is inferior to the other two classes.

My point is if you make the swashbuckler equal, he will be untouchable and immortal 1 v 1, because he can lock them in position, never get bashed/tripped, and outlast his opponent always.

Keep in mind too, a swashbuckler also gets trip, disarm, and dirt kick.

Taunt buys the swashbuckler (essentially) infinite time to do this in. The reason it doesn't work now is a swashbuckler gets murdered by damage because he can't avoid it long enough to pin-prick his opponent to death.

That will change if the swashbuckler becomes defensively superior enough to start outlasting his opponents.

FinneyOwnzU · **Joined:** Wed Apr 24, 2002 11:51 am **Posts:** 1500

nothingxs wrote:

As someone who has trouble reading dark blue and blue on black, I would please request that the offensive skills be changed to something easier to read, like $3/$3$I (which is less murder on my eyes). I'm sure a few people have this problem and there is the option of just editing the color display client-side, but that ruins a lot of gradient work which builders occasionally use. Thanks

These triggers will restore pre-update colors to rallying cry and trip (all of which now use the $1 color code - ugh). I'm sure there are other messages that use the $1 color code, but I haven't come across them yet.

Code:

#TRIGGER {You thunder forth a tremendous rallying cry!} {#CO 6}

#TRIGGER {You trip * and {he|she|it} goes down!} {#CO 2;#SAY ~>~>~>~>~>~>~> TRIPPED ~<~<~<~<~<~<~<;#CO 11}

#TRIGGER {You try to trip * but end up tripping yourself!} {#CO 2;#SAY ~>~>~>~>~>~>~> MISSED TRIP ~<~<~<~<~<~<~<;#CO 11} 

#TRIGGER {* tries to trip * but ends up tripping {himself|herself|itself}!} {#CO 2;#SAY ~>~>~>~>~>~>~> MISSED TRIP ~<~<~<~<~<~<~<;#CO 11}

#TRIGGER {* trips you and you go down!} {#CO 2;#SAY ~>~>~>~>~>~>~> TRIPPED ~<~<~<~<~<~<~<;#CO 11}

#TRIGGER {(*) trips (*) sending {him|her|it} to the ground.} {#CO 2;#SAY ~>~>~>~>~>~>~> %1 TRIPPED %2 ~<~<~<~<~<~<~<;#CO 11}

ninja_ardith · **Joined:** Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:21 pm **Posts:** 4452

theORplayer wrote:

Also, taunt does not have the ability to set the user prone themselves.

Swashbucklers must remain inferior to barbarians and mercenaries if they are to retain the uberness of taunt and get skills buffs. Otherwise, we're just trading the spots around for 'best warrior class'.

If you disagree with my assessment, then you'd be in favor of losing taunt for bash.

Taunt is actually a horrible skill. It generates two rounds of lag on the swashbuckler, and has a high failure rate.

My preliminary tests have shown that heckle is also barely an answer against a massive weapon. And I can only venture a guess that you clearly have no idea how good mercs and barbs are.

theORplayer · **Joined:** Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:35 am **Posts:** 138

ninja_ardith wrote:

Taunt is actually a horrible skill. It generates two rounds of lag on the swashbuckler, and has a high failure rate.

My preliminary tests have shown that heckle is also barely an answer against a massive weapon. And I can only venture a guess that you clearly have no idea how good mercs and barbs are.

It has a high failure rate due to the 'no flee' option. It shouldn't have more than 1 round of lag and should land often, with a penalty to intelligence and stacking with the automatic heckle command to reduce the skills of the person being taunted.

But yeah, the personal attacks are cool.

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Code update 7/27/2014 Q&A

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