Shattered Kingdoms

Yet, when I write them in your favor, you have no qualms with them. Only when you're validly criticized.


Strange, that. Methinks some folks need to get out of the mindset of reading everything as hostile, as it is a reflection of the groupthink mentality that goes on here.

It is what it is, not anything more.

I don't like the "us" vs "them" mentality people can get when they read something they think isn't quite nice.

Having read OR's posts in places like the afterlife, this is definitely not a matter of people taking his posts 'too personal' or anything.

You actually have both now. We get some promises of certain changes that will happen in the distant future and at the same time, we see things shot down based on unknown core principles. The point isn't to avoid complaining, but the time it takes for me to ask for something and see it shot down because it clashes with some principle I can't help but be unaware of and the time it takes to shoot down all the suggestions and threads and drama that come out of not having what we consider nice things.

Making vague promises while not being clear on what the general plan will be is a politician's game. I'd rather know what the plan is so I won't invest my time in a game that doesn't fit with my gaming preferences.



Subverted expectations, delayed development and broken promises. First of all, you can't help not pleasing every single person when developing anything. That already happens with announced but unknown future updates when the update actually goes in. No way around it and I think that's exactly as it should be.

Every reasonable player should show some understanding to slow development when it's clear that the development team is so small. As long of course that it doesn't end up pissing on people's enjoyment of the game in a major way.

Why be afraid of broken promises though? I see no good reason why there should be any and if there are any, it's dishonest to hide them from players who have expected certain changes sometimes for years. I'm getting the sense that the prevailing mentality here is that player hours are somehow cheaper than developer hours or staff hours. I care as much about my time being invested in a game that won't eventually come closer to what I'd like as any developer cares about his product. The only thing that I'm asking for is not being misled on whether I'll eventually get features that I'd like.



It would still save time on the part of the players to know what subjects they can make suggestions about and what subjects are not even up for discussion. It's true that player input does get implemented sometimes but it's also true that a lot of player input is immediately shot down or ignored. This creates a terrible impression of how the game is run and not just to brand new players.



These conversations happen as you describe them and have been happening for as long as I have been playing. I also find the argument that numbers will suddenly ruin suspension of disbelief not convincing. There are already numbers in the game, the game engine is based on numbers, PK is essentially about numbers and invisible dice rolls etc. I don't even understand what sort of model SK is based on that never uses numbers. A novel?

As I already said though, the problem isn't numbers, it's the obscurity of the underlying numbers. I'm perfectly fine with saying that item X has a slight endowment to Y as long as there's a table on the site that links slight/almost moderate/moderate/above moderate/great to 1/2/3/4/5 so I can deal with the game engine in a way that allows me to enjoy the game. Catch me saying 4 fort and 2 dex IC in the game and curse me five levels down but at least give me the alternative of using words for these numbers in a way that I'm not talking gibberish.

How about the model that is real life? The world is governed by numbers: pi, c, planck's constant, etc. When you want to get stronger, do you attempt to mathematically rate yourself against everyone else around you or do you just keep pumping heavier iron? When a new pair of glasses enhance your vision to 20/20, do you actually care about the number or just the fact that you can see now? There is a chance of failure in most non-trivial actions. Are you always attempting to quantify it? Play your character the way you would "play" real life.

Huh? Yeah, I actually "mathematically" quantify my diet and workout schedule - counting how many grams of protein, fat and carbohydrates I consume a day among other things. If you just "keep pumping heavier iron" your gains will be minimal compared to using an actual plan.

It's actually a lot of hard work to pump iron and exercise. I had a friend in uni that went for phys ed/whatever they call it. You're required to take courses in chemistry/biochem to get the degree. Those classes are nothing but mathematics. You have to know.

I always draw up a sheet to calculate the numbers of my enchants. Whenever I encounter "moderate" or "great" I always calculate both the minimum and maximum, while assuming minimum. Stats are fairly easy to quantify, the only runes that lie in true obscurity are non-attributes. I actually like the vagueness of identifying most pieces.

I personally get annoyed when someone says "put five ap on that chest piece." I try to word it up by saying things like "Would you like me to pray for this weapon four or five times, and what would you like? To sharpen the blade, or to make it strike true?"
I especially hate it when people say str dex con int wis cha. Its not hard to say strength, nimbleness, durability, intellect, wisdom, appeal or something to those effects.

I like not knowing precisely whether there are two or three runes of fortitude on a piece of armor.

Thanks, Baranov. It's nice when chars play along like that, even if it's just an IC veneer.

These are not good examples as it has already been pointed out. What's heavier iron anyway? You have to quantify something with a commonly accepted measurement unit and compare it before you can say that something is heavier. People don't just weight things in their hands and guesstimate. And obviously I care if glasses are exactly what I need, if they're off I won't be able to see or know what sort of glasses would fit me in the first place. As for magic, the entire western magical tradition is so choke full of mathematics and geometry that if you go back far enough in time, you'll find that they're basically the same subject. There's no point to give counter examples to that.

Besides, who would be considered a "grand master" at something in real life? Someone with two phds and thirty years of experience? I don't think any professional deals with vagueness at that level of mastery.If you want to make a fantasy-themed simulation, I'm all for it. But at least remove the dnd-like engine underneath. This is like making randomized and misnamed keyboards and calling them handwriting tools.

I get that grep has been messing with you for a while but the responses you give here are verging on the irrational. You haven't given me that impression so try to relax before making statements that you're not 100% behind. We're not all here to troll.