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 Post subject: Re: Introducing the Rules Manager: Rules Q&A
PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 5:44 pm 
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Mortal

Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2006 7:47 pm
Posts: 3776
Location: Virginia
SK Character: Amorette
I think IC/RPed punishments would make a great ADDITION to the rules already in place. :devil:


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 Post subject: Re: Introducing the Rules Manager: Rules Q&A
PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 5:46 pm 
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Mortal

Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2002 11:51 am
Posts: 1500
Galthryn wrote:
-GIve IC repercussions for certain types of rules breakage. Esp. the golden rule. For example, X pk's Y without RP reason, such as X has a piece of gear Y wants. A certain group of NPC vigillantes might take note of X's actions and attack him at some point.


You just contradicted yourself. If someone is killed for gear - that is a very valid reason for PK. It is called greed and it is completely consistent with multiple alignments. People get killed in the real world for money, cars, and even trivial things like a pair of shoes. You shouldn't be surprised when it happens in a fantasy setting, too.


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 Post subject: Re: Introducing the Rules Manager: Rules Q&A
PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 6:28 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:53 pm
Posts: 503
The game obviously needs some sort of documented Lightie Ten Commandments.

Thou shalt not kill other lighties/etc.

Never seen these rules actually listed anywhere.


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 Post subject: Re: Introducing the Rules Manager: Rules Q&A
PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 7:49 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:40 am
Posts: 355
woahboy wrote:
The game obviously needs some sort of documented Lightie Ten Commandments.

Thou shalt not kill other lighties/etc.

Never seen these rules actually listed anywhere.


Tried to get something like that going, but you can't have 10 lighties in a room for 1 hour without them measuring the length of their light against one another :D


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 Post subject: Re: Introducing the Rules Manager: Rules Q&A
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 8:05 am 
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Mortal

Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2007 12:45 am
Posts: 203
Quote:
You jog south.

Bleak Rolling Hills
Scattered copses of stout pine trees dot the hilly landscape
hhhhhhf here. In several places, piles of talus have accumulated from
h^^*fff some of the larger rock outcrops further upslope. Lichen covers
#^hssff much of the bare stone. It's snowing lightly, freezing, and
there is a gale blowing.
Obvious exits: n e s w nw ne sw se
A delicious magic mushroom is here.

[HP: 81%] [ME:100%] [PE: 88%]
> eat mush
You are too full to eat more.

[HP: 81%] [ME:100%] [PE: 88%]
> get mush
You get a Magic Mushroom.

[HP: 81%] [ME:100%] [PE: 88%]


This is a stupid question but what the hay. I think i made this mushroom randomly on my character yesterday. and I found it still here today on my Alt by chance. I am not a 100% sure that it is my mushroom. Am i going to get into trouble for picking up this mushroom?


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 Post subject: Re: Introducing the Rules Manager: Rules Q&A
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 9:21 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:53 pm
Posts: 503
You done [REDACTED] up, son.

Delete. :evil:


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 Post subject: Re: Introducing the Rules Manager: Rules Q&A
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 1:57 pm 
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Immortal (Inactive)

Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:11 am
Posts: 179
Galthryn (Paraphrased) wrote:
-...horde code.
-...I think a much better chance to police this sort of behavior is to allow only 1 character in a faction.
-Re-examine the rules and see if the same game concepts can't be protected with less draconian measures.
-GIve IC repercussions for certain types of rules breakage.
-Reward people who put extra effort to observe the rules.


1) The horde code is something that, if you have issues with, you can identify specifically and bring up to change in this forum. Framework enforcement like this with specified thresholds can have those thresholds change with relatively minor fuss. If you make a logical, strong, and fair case - as long as the counter-argument isn't stronger in Dulrik's eyes - it's very likely these can be changed.

2) I consider hard-line rules absolutely detrimental to the freedom to play the game how one wants. I would very much rather give you the coded freedom to make a choice and give fair guidelines for use, than a zero tolerance policy that doesn't give you the option to do something no matter how much harder or more dedicated to it you must be to do that something. Some things require zero tolerance, but not many. Multiplaying is one of those things. I want people to have the freedom to play multiple characters in multiple outlets - there are some people I'd feel good to see have the time and willingness to do it - even if playing those multiple characters requires stricter attentiveness in order to do within the boundaries of fairness and fun. I can be swayed, but this is my stance as it is.

3) The rules are so easy to avoid crossing that you shouldn't be doing this. I understand the waters are muddied still, and trust me in that I am trying to get a reasonable and clear reiteration of them to you guys as soon as possible. It takes time, especially with my real-life obligations. I want you to know that I am working on this, though I can't promise a timeline. The less I have to stop to enforce rules, the more opportunity I get to work on it. As you can tell from the afterlife forum, I'm kept busy.

4) Warnings have proven absolutely ineffective as a prevention tool over the course of time. It's much better for all involved if the penalties are clear, even if a bit harsh, than to give an inconsistent response that can be decried as favoritism when they aren't applied to everyone. I would rather people have clear lines not to cross, know what they get for crossing them, and be seen as harsh than something inconsistent and shadowy. Warnings and graded punishments for some things introduce a factor of obfuscation and mistrust. Look at how people see the staff now: while there's been some acts of bias, there have been as many objective acts of leniency that create mistrust in contrast to the repetitive abusers who just get the axe after one violation.

5) IC repercussions are already in place. "Bad roleplay" is making acting in a way that is directly OOC, or directly against the guidelines of alignment/race. If it is not clean-cut and direct, then poor choices that otherwise fit the role of a character can and do have IC repercussions instead of curses. This is something that has and will continue to exist.

To use your most recent turmoil as an example that apparently everyone and their mother is familiar with: Galthryn had the right to make the choices he did, even if some people disagree with them. An argument could be made for making the choice, as much as an argument could be made against it. That's why, while Galthryn may or may not be utterly ostracized for his choices by the IC lightie community, he will not be cursed.

6) I absolutely will not reward people for following the rules. I will also not reward people for narcing fellow players out. I am here to maintain the integrity of the game and its rules, which if done correctly is in and of itself its own reward for the people that play. I encourage people to narc, report unfairness and dishonesty, simply so that I can do what I want to and keep your guys' time as fair and fun as possible. People will know they aren't being cheated against and that they are on the same playing field as everyone else on the game, and that is all I think you will ever see when it comes to rules rewards.


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 Post subject: Re: Introducing the Rules Manager: Rules Q&A
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 3:13 pm 
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Mortal

Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:49 pm
Posts: 258
There is post upon post in these forums complaining how the top gear passes through the same line or groups of characters. Most of the time it's through clever ways but the intent is still the same. Besides you all know when you're breaking the rules. At least syn got to keep one of his chars in this instance which is way better than past punishments.


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 Post subject: Re: Introducing the Rules Manager: Rules Q&A
PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 11:33 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:40 am
Posts: 355
On the Horde code:

My suggestion would be to name all limited items as 'limited' or with some other keyword so one can quickly check how many such items he has in inventory.

One of the most frustrating things is trying to guess if something you have counts towards the horde code or not, or missing it when you scan through your inventory, logging out and losing random stuff.


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 Post subject: Re: Introducing the Rules Manager: Rules Q&A
PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 11:54 am 
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Mortal

Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:53 pm
Posts: 503
Galthryn wrote:
On the Horde code:

My suggestion would be to name all limited items as 'limited' or with some other keyword so one can quickly check how many such items he has in inventory.

One of the most frustrating things is trying to guess if something you have counts towards the horde code or not, or missing it when you scan through your inventory, logging out and losing random stuff.


Or you could just look at the hoard code description from Dulrik. Maybe it needs an in-game file.

Clothes/armor, jewelry, shield, weapons, container. You can only have six of those on your character not being worn.

Pretty simple.


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