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 Post subject: Re: Charms/Skills
PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 1:21 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2015 4:53 pm
Posts: 26
It is a fact that by selecting sprite you raised the difficulty level when it comes to generating damage output, which is the critical factor in tearing through a charmy before a sorcerer lands his 2nd or 3rd attempt at an impairment-bonused petrification. It would be fair to note that since the most recent changes, a sprite warrior (Sitis) has done incredibly well for himself. I'd suggest you attempt model his approach if you have questions about what you need to do to be successful against a range of opponents.

Or just roll a griffon MR barb for the Hammer and I will ride you around to victory until Dulrik nerfs us both.


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 Post subject: Re: Charms/Skills
PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:27 pm 
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No love for sprites.

My character is pretty tough, I just didn't understand my build properly.


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 Post subject: Re: Charms/Skills
PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 8:29 am 
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Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 9:16 am
Posts: 1567
SK Character: NA - Inactive
TheX wrote:
Sweyn wrote:
May also be based on two recent group fights where one side had 2+ sorcerers who got to cast and recite a lot of petrifications. I know better than to try to tell you when is too early to judge. What is abundantly clear is that after your recent changes there is still a learning curve to SK and that newbies who completely fail to address will/fort spells via full MR or innate mods will die very quick in PK.


New innate changes make everyone vulnerable, I have a good kit and there is no hope for me should I get petrified. So chewing through a charm whole getting lambasted with one shot spells means I am probably going to eat it to subpar sorc. Petrifying me.


As a general rule the sorc CASTING their petrification spell -ought- to be more dangerous/lethal than the sorc reciting that same spell, even if that sorc is assumed to be "subpar".


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 Post subject: Re: Charms/Skills
PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 9:15 am 
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Joined: Wed May 02, 2012 4:58 am
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Location: Rolling in the Grave
SK Character: Gailehn, Stephanov
Dabi wrote:
As a general rule the sorc CASTING their petrification spell -ought- to be more dangerous/lethal than the sorc reciting that same spell, even if that sorc is assumed to be "subpar".


And similarly, any caster's direct AoE should be more damaging than it's magical device counterpart.

Not to say magical devices shouldn't have an effect. They should just not be as counted on, nor a replacement for actually having the caster in the party.


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 Post subject: Re: Charms/Skills
PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:28 pm 
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A rare cameo for me... Maybe these forums really have become... Civil... We'll see.

During my time playing Xalgrim I have encountered a few things I might address here, because I've done a lot of testing.

I'm going to give my 2-cents since a lot of TheX's interaction with Sorcs lately has been via Xalgrim.

NOTE: I can't address all the things, but here are some answers from the viewpoint I've acquired.

------------------

1.) Powerful double petrification scrolls only work really well against non-barbarian fighters wearing the new adamantite that has weak innates.

And, the items I have seen that can cause/cast petrification are powerful, but take a vast amount of energy and casting time to use, and they, like scrolls, only work on certain foes.

Actually casting petrification is SIGNIFICANTLY more likely to work. I really only like the scrolls for initiation, and because if they do work they're fantastic.

------------------------------------------

2.) The age of uber-Addy is over. This is going to make resisting everything at once much harder and force you to enchant your armor to play to certain strengths and come up with intelligent tactics to counter the rest.

Read: You can no longer solo-carry fights. You will need to work as a team and understand the strengths and weaknesses of both your class/skillset and armament. E.G. - If you know the enemy has barbarians, bring warlocks.

This is a good thing. Sorry, but not sorry, to the vets who used to be able to do differently.

So to reply to TheX on his weapons... There are many fights where I knew that if he wasn't doing any damage, then our foe went all AP, and my petrification most certainly will work. (Free Hint: Magic damage from weapons that do it will be even more awesome, they have no MP).

Furthermore, I think there are a lot of changes that will result from the changes to innates and armor (+ if big D tweaks anything else) that have not yet come to fruition. I think that the intended (and soon to be realized) effect of reducing the innates on heavy armor is that it will balance out heavy fighters with light armor tanks (shaman/swashi) because the light-armor tanks can resist magic more readily with better innates.

I really like that I can now coordinate an entire formations tactics to appropriately target each enemy and what they'll likely do, and that not only this works (finally), but I have to do it in order to win.

[Update: Vs. NPCs as well, now that they've been largely buffed too)

-------------------------------------------

3.) There is only one Lathron, but there are plenty of other charms that, with a little bit of work and know-how, can easily match or beat Lathron in combat.

Lathron is the easiest charm to make powerful, that doesn't mean he is the only one. Get creative. I'm just super lazy and I try to be quick on the draw and grab Lathron first..

---------------------------------------------

4.) My general two cents about Sorcs:

I have tried many times to GM a sorc pre-xalgrim and never had the knowledge or pre-requisite skill to play them well. No offense to Allniska's player, but he/she is really more the average skill level of an sk player. Sorcs have a tremendous reward for a lot of experience and skill, but the trade-off is harsh. They have a tremendous tool-kit but you have to apply it very intelligently and good sorc pk takes TONS of preparation and forethought.


Last edited by Ezeant on Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Charms/Skills
PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:34 pm 
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Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2015 8:14 pm
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Ezeant wrote:
Sorcs have a tremendous reward for a lot of experience and skill, but the trade-off is harsh. They have a tremendous tool-kit but you have to apply it very intelligently and good sorc pk takes TONS of preparation and forethought.

Ezeant wrote:
good sorc pk takes TONS of preparation and forethought.

Ezeant wrote:
TONS of preparation and forethought


The griffon sorcerer train is ROLLING and there's room for more passengers! 8)


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 Post subject: Re: Charms/Skills
PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:47 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:10 am
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Quote:

The griffon sorcerer train is ROLLING and there's room for more passengers! 8)



Pfft... Trust in gnome :D


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 Post subject: Re: Charms/Skills
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 8:57 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 2:01 pm
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Location: I'm in a glass case of emotion!
SK Character: Retired Troll
Ezeant wrote:
I have tried many times to GM a sorc pre-xalgrim and never had the knowledge or pre-requisite skill to play them well. No offense to Allniska's player, but he/she is really more the average skill level of an sk player. Sorcs have a tremendous reward for a lot of experience and skill, but the trade-off is harsh. They have a tremendous tool-kit but you have to apply it very intelligently and good sorc pk takes TONS of preparation and forethought.


I haven't played in a while or kept up with every code change, but I haven't heard of anything that would suddenly make sorcs take "TONS of preparation and forethought" to pk successfully. This class outmatches every other class in every important category, including offensive and defensive capability in pvp, utility, and pve potential.


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 Post subject: Re: Charms/Skills
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 9:03 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2015 5:43 am
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Baldric wrote:
Ezeant wrote:
I have tried many times to GM a sorc pre-xalgrim and never had the knowledge or pre-requisite skill to play them well. No offense to Allniska's player, but he/she is really more the average skill level of an sk player. Sorcs have a tremendous reward for a lot of experience and skill, but the trade-off is harsh. They have a tremendous tool-kit but you have to apply it very intelligently and good sorc pk takes TONS of preparation and forethought.


I haven't played in a while or kept up with every code change, but I haven't heard of anything that would suddenly make sorcs take "TONS of preparation and forethought" to pk successfully. This class outmatches every other class in every important category, including offensive and defensive capability in pvp, utility, and pve potential.


You are correct. Sorcerers don't take any more skill or preparation than most classes. The only class nowadays that takes a lot of preparation is necromancer. There is no class on SK that is difficult enough to play that a "skill" argument should be used to justify a mechanic, skill or spell that is overpowered or not balanced.


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 Post subject: Re: Charms/Skills
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 12:55 pm 
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SK Character: Rolf
I think melee classes take a lot of preparation to get right. I feel like enchanting your gear is more important on a front line tank-style character because of how often they are getting hit. They also need prep for potions and buffs.


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