Shattered Kingdoms

That comment about running to the kitchen cracked me up.

Id be really interested to know your thoughts on magma.

Also was intrigued that Ardith lumped "weaken" in with the toughest spells. Without agreeing or disagreeing, Im really curious why you group that one as you do. (And of course, necros, what we love and hate and why).

Weaken is one of the best spells in the game. For some races, getting hit with weaken is a no-save Interdiction. For most races, it strips you of gear/carried items and still possibly acts as a no-save Interdiction. Its cast time is long enough that the save penalty for getting hit with it and saving (I forget what it's called, it's been too long since I saw it) is strong enough that it will hit 2nd or 3rd time almost guaranteed. 2nd for sure, since I gather saves have been reduced in impact vs casting.

EDIT: Oh, and, lol, you can stick it on your weapon for a potentially crippling opening strike.

1. The cast time on the spell is prohibitive. It is roughly two rounds, which is a long time to be locked out of active commands. Just a few bad things that could happen in that two rounds: your elemental is dispelled or killed, you take approximately 10 arrows to the noggin from a scout or mercenary (who might retreat out of the room during your long cast, they continue to do damage while you do none), dirt kick, blindness, or any number of abilities or spells that are faster and more dangerous than the spell you are casting.

2. The spell can only cling one time, which means all further casts do half damage. Unless you are fighting another caster, it creates a scenario where you want the victim to make their saving throw. Otherwise, the burst comes at the start of the fight when it is easier to recover from instead of at the end when it could potentially be a finishing blow. Every other reflex-based spell in the game rewards you for the victim failing their saving throw except for magma spray. It rewards you one time and after that the saving throw is meaningless.

3. Resist elements. Not as common or easy to get these days, but still available (via staves mostly).

4. Elves, deep-elves, sprites, and halflings. This spell is supposed to bypass magical protection, but it is still mitigated by racial magical protection.

5. MR barbarians. It bypasses MR. It should be great against them, right? Wrong. One cling, long cast time versus an opponent with a ton of health that does more damage than you. Even against a target of opportunity, this spell is still just awful.

When comparing magma spray and warlock utility to spells like harm and acid blast and the utility of priests and sorcerers, things start to get really silly. Warlocks have a niche in CRS because of their ranged AoE spells, but in every other aspect of the game they are pretty awful. That niche is not even that important after the last update. Their signature spell which is supposed to be one of the most powerful combat spells available to any spell-caster isn't even as a good as initiate and apprentice level spell like acid blast, sleep, weaken or curse. As a warlock, I would trade magma spray for any of those spells. In fact, I would trade magma spray for identify. =) It's just that awful.

I'll agree with Gann. He pretty much broke it down better than I've seen anyone else do. As far as a damage dealing spell, it is certainly not the best. And it really should, at the very least, be in the conversation when talking about the best damage dealing spells out there.

I've played an MR barb who was targeted by magma spray. I did not fear it even a little bit because if I ate two mistletoe (which takes one round) the damage is all but completely recovered. A barb can tank their elemental and soak the damage from magma all day just laughing at the warlock until their mana runs out.

BTW, did you know that the helpfile on magma doesn't even mention that it bypasses MR or MP? That's an ovesight, I'm sure.

Yeah, magma's weakness is that it's coded to only deal full damage when it clings, which according to the way that it's coded, only happens once per target. Basically, reflex is, for the aforementioned reasons, actually worse to have on your gear if a warlock is casting magma, because it's better to have the burst damage upfront before the heat of a battle rather than the middle of it.

Magma was changed to be as it was so that warlocks would have an option against enchanted/buffed players, but it's still something that only low HP classes and centaurs fear. It's a class features that's great against unprepared opponents, but terrible against prepared ones, in that it can literally one-shot an unspelled non-MR race caster, but a few heal vials can otherwise mitigate the damage pretty well since the full damage only hits once in a battle.

Warlocks still get fireball for aoe ranged damage in a room, cone of cold for group damage even at range, and lightning bolt for single target dps, but the problem is that warlocks, like all casters, have to expend mana and actively commit actions in order to deal spell-based damage, whereas warrior classes can quaff heals while still outputting the same amount of damage they always did. Sorcerers have the luxury of being able to cast acid blast if they -want- a damage spell, (and honestly I wouldn't be surprised if acid blast is nearly the same level of dps as lightning bolt) but sorcerers also get petrification which is infinitely better, plus all the utility of enchant/summon/charm/gate.

Warlocks do a fine job of being the spell-damage based caster. Given the fact that everyone should generally be stacking as much fortitude as they can on their armor nowadays, the gap of reflex/MP should be able to be taken advantage of. The problem is that spell-damage based casters just aren't that good, and warlocks don't have any skills/spells that outshine the other damage spells that exist in the game. Even the ranged aspect of warlock spells just isn't worthwhile because they're very rarely useful since fireball often aggro's more than you can handle, and skirmish from a scout or mercenary is actually more effective.

In short: Giving up the utility of a sorcerer for the spell damage/minor healing/different defensive spells of a warlock feels like a bad bargain. Warlocks are one of those classes that you always want to have around (primarily for the brewed ironguard/stoneskin), but don't want to actually play yourself: And almost anyone would rather have a sorcerer/priest friend than a warlock friend if they had to choose only one.

I really get the feeling that some of the damage spells need to add damage to body parts the same way weapons do. This could do a lot of things as far as damage spells. First and foremost it would create a tactic of assisting melee with damage which doesnt really happen in the current combat system. There are also a number of tweakable systems that could be added to it. One could be a extra tier to the save system. Body part damage, full damage, half damage, no damage. It could affect the art system splitting it into skill that decreases foes saves or increases body part damage. It would bring a very big change to how magic worked and was defended against though. It might even give a reason for casters to switch to stance aggressive.

It would require a lot of balance and easing into it. There is a lot of room for such a change to be either underwhelming or overwhelming change. Would probably be better to approach it from the underwhelming side of things ramping it up to make it more effective so as not to break current balance of things to much. There is a huge essay I could write on how the system could work and the huge pitfalls of such a system but I will save the wall of text from this thread.

Weaken is a -10 debuff to str. This causes dropped weapons, inventory items, can lock people in place from being overweight, so even if they recall they're only a gate or a rift spell away from death, and slightly mitigates melee damage. It also stacks with poison, which is a -14 debuff from strength if they both stick. I only say slightly mitigates melee damage also because I've actually severed someone's arm, nailed them with poison and weaken, and curse and had to flee because their damage was so good.

It casts quick, and does a lot of damage.

Magma should have a chance to cling every cast, each time it does it should add to the DOT multiplier.

What if instead of damage over time, it caused damage for each active command entered by the victim?

How about instead deal xtra damage after cling happened. Ohhh... Shorten casting time.