Shattered Kingdoms

The Fist is pretty awful right now because of the lack of ki straps with a material type better than tanso steel, with the few available better than tanso steel being a terrible magic/elemental damage attack type that gets mitigated by elf, sprite, deep-elf, and halfling innate magical protection, cut in half by resist elements and completely negated by MR barbarians. Any combo you can make as Fist, you can make better as Hammer and get the advantage of using a shield.

The only thing that Fist shines at these days is defending against crossbows and bows. I imagine that's part of the reason Sazen retired. Fist is great on paper and in theory, but below average in actual gameplay. When my character ages again, he will be specializing in a one-handed melee weapon, wearing a shield and that will be the last time his Fist skill set ever gets used.

I haven't played a fist in a long time, but last time I did there weren't any ki straps, and my normal fists worked great. Something change to make normal fists crazy sub-par? Or are ki just that much superior to normal punching that people have gotten used to it?

A lot has changed, but it's impossible to know where to start since you didn't mention when you last played a Fist, the name of the character, or even what you mean by "worked great".

I don't remember the exact time frame, but here is a who list from that point. By worked great I mean I never had any trouble with dps and I tanked really well, to the point where that character is what I measure my new ones against in terms of survivability.

I consider there to be four areas of the game, with three of them being competitive: pre-GM PvE, GM PvE, PK and CRS. The Fist skill set is good for pre-GM PvE, but not better than the Hammer skill set. It is below average in the other three categories. This is not the correct forum or thread to discuss or debate it, but after 500 or so hours of testing I find myself using base mercenary skills more than Fist skills.

The Fist skill set isn't designed to make everyone do better DPS than a mercenary. As a merc in the Fist, you are overlapping instead of boosting your DPS abilities. It's probably not an optimal combination, but it can still be fun.

But this isn't the thread for asking about cabal skill improvements. If you want to continue a discussion, it should be in the Fist forum.

That discussion has already been had on the Fist forum, and it was made pretty clear that tanso steel is the norm. The problem is not just Fist mercenary - it's any class combination. Fist skill set is just poor. The irony is that mercenary is one the few classes that can actually stand front row and use the skill set. You are still below average, but every other class can only realistically use the skill set while leveling - i.e. pre-GM PvE.

If you attempt to use the skill set in GM PvE, CRS or PK then you're in for a lot of disappointment and failure.

Feel free to have the discussion on the Fist forum again. But it will not be had here. Locking thread.