Shattered Kingdoms

triggers/bots should = 1 level curse and loss of all equipment

a harsh enough penalty to discourage people from cheating, but not so harsh that they decide they r better off spending their time playing another game instead of shattered kingdoms. there's no reason for the punishments to be so harsh that someone quits over it - cuz that doesn't really punish them, it punishes the rest of us.

I'd be on board with that if the trigger was obviously done in a way that didn't grant any mechanical benefit, blink blink blink style or "emote manifests into view" style on losing invis. However, I would be very frustrated if someone PKilled and jlooted my character using a trigger and only got a level curse and ate a jloot for it.

That said, I can understand the line of thinking that such a measurement is subjective at best. One of the primary complaints against the IMMs for years has been uneven enforcement and that would just be another example of it. I remember a while ago when Peso posted a log of himself clearly using a disarm trigger. I told one of the IMMs about it and they said something along the lines of "Yeah but it wasn't that big of a deal." It bothered me to no end because a disarm trigger that fires off "wear all" is most certainly a big deal.

While it isn't perfect, at least it's set in stone. Every single person can read the rules and see the rules on triggers.

I agree with this. Also think that in general if someone has a trigger obvious enough to get caught, it's also obvious enough to be exploited by anyone they fight against.

1st off, 3xblink triggers are awesome, but was too OP so dulrik added the elemental flicker message.

But yeah, its really best to use triggers that dont send anything to the server. It would be nice if the severity of punishments was toned down, but I guess its just easier to use the ham-handed all-or-nothing strategy to sacrifice counts in exchange for perceived fairness.

i agree with everyone getting the same punishment for the breaking the same rule - that's not the problem. the problem is that too many rules violations have deletion as the punishment. short of out-of-character harassment/threats or hacking the game or another players character...nobody should be getting deleted or banned.

if someone ends up quitting the game over a punishment - they're not really getting punished, it's the rest of us that continue to play but have an even smaller who list that end up dealing with the consequences.

I agree with this wholeheartedly, especially the italicized part.

To clarify my deletion, my ONLY trigger was an emote "Ezaya manifests into view." whenever invisibilty was released or ended due to combat. Yes, this was a trigger. Yes, triggers are against the rules. However, there is also a rule #10, USE COMMON SENSE. I was told by Thuban when he brought me to wherever, "Don't even bother arguing your case to me." Well, that's idiotic. There HAS to be some sort of discussion with EVERY deletion, even if you have no ability or desire to overturn it, not that I think that's at all positive either. Intent is a considering in punishing any rulebreaker, in any game or in life. My trigger was strictly a roleplay tool that neither I as a player or Ezaya as the character benefited from. I broke a rule, but not in the spirit the rule was created for. With the player base in this kind of shape you can't just WHAM DELETE people. Have a discussion. Let me explain my side and determine my intent and punish me accordingly. Be a human being, not a bloodthirsty delete monster.

If you got to rule ten, you definitely read rule 6, though, which states right there that triggers require deletion. There isn't any allowed leeway in the current rules, and plenty of characters have been deleted for triggers and are visible in the afterlife thread. Of all the rules, while this may seem the most unfair for emote-style triggers, it's also the most clear: If you trigger something in response to mud output, you're going to get deleted.

If you want to argue for the rules to be changed to account for some sort of lesser punishment, this would be a good place to do so, but there's no room to say that deleting Ezaya as a result of an emote trigger was in any way more harsh than the rules required: From what I can see, everyone that's been caught triggering has been given the same treatment since Thuban became KD. If Thuban -didn't- decide to delete Ezaya despite being caught triggering, he wouldn't be doing his job.

This is one of the easiest rules to avoid breaking: When you have that "create trigger" box open, don't ever do anything that automatically sends something to the mud. I miss Ezaya myself, it sucks to lose the character, but you weren't targeted unfairly in this case: I wish I'd noticed the trigger myself and said something OOC to you.

I still agree with this even while agreeing that anyone who gets caught with a trigger is not playing with a full deck

I'd go easy on him. Afaik, he isnt a repeat blink trigger offender like me. The manifesting into view actually hampers him. A curse of a few levels and a present player is better than a player that quits, but I dont run the show or make the rules. I'll leave the methods of growing a strong playerbase to the experts.