Shattered Kingdoms

Why in the world can tribunal guards not be ordered to cast spells?

Things were so well balanced between cabals and tribunals when tribunals got to order their guards to cast. It introduced a wide range of tactics to be used in PvP, and in a game with declining pcounts, allowed for people to actually play the game when they would have otherwise been dependent on finding a PC to cast gate for them or something.

Like, seriously, does anyone know what the thought process behind that change would have been?

Not entirely positive, but I think one concern was balance between the various tribunals. Another was people essentially walking around with more buffs than possible any other way, including buffs not readily accessible any other way. With two fewer tribunals, and the ability to access cabals/tribunals at the same time, it seems like balancing it could be easier if given another go around.

For what it's worth, it's not something that hasn't had additional discussion since, or some kind of non-starter. My personal take is that taking the player count into consideration is folly when it comes to changes like that. Either it's good and balanced enough to have as part of the game, or it isn't, because doing it now and then taking it away later would just be cruel. If tribunal casting were brought back, I know I would personally want it to be a permanent change, and not a temporary fix.

People abusing Aid and Resurrect had a lot to do with it if I remember correctly... Wish they let us keep Gate, Shrink, and Enlarge.

I dont mind it being a temporary change. It just opens more doors to play the game. And its not cruel if you give it back and give a disclaimer saying that it can be taken away at anytime upon further abuse. Its just cruel to just dangle the carrot and never get anywhere with it.

A more logical approach would be wiping out all NPCs of spells, then giving each city one mage-caster guard that allows for preapproved spells. This allows for all tribunal to be on the same playing ground.

Was this the reason why bards got shafted so hard? Its a class not even worth playing. If someone is willing to put in the time and not having meditation to play a bard, they should get the benefits of persuade. If someone was dedicated enough to play a bard, they should be allowed to keep the extra buff that they can persuade someone to do. Even if bards were brought back to their former glory, I would still never play it.

It sounds like you think that bards lost the benefits of persuade when tribunals lost the ability to order guards to cast. They didn't- bards are the only class who can still order NPCs to cast like this. So really, the removal of tribunal casting-command actually provided bards with a relative buff by leaving them as the only characters who could still 'order' up spells of armor, shield, bless, lighten load, shrink, enlarge, giant strength, haste, etc. Though in my experience, the lag from persuade can be a pain in the [REDACTED], and the risk of the target NPCs going aggro can be counter-productive, and the mana cost of persuade can be prohibitive.

The approach of wiping out all NPC spells would actually be shafting bards, by removing their access to these buffs, and could effectively neuter one of the best uses of the persuade skill.

It's been several years now, so I don't remember all the specifics of how the decision about tribunal casting was made. I don't like how it would again encroach on the bard's persuade skill, but can relate to all requests to reconsider it. It would be a major reason to encourage tribunal membership again. And it seems reasonable that there would be vendors in each of the major kingdoms who would be willing to cast spells for money, not unlike the healers.

I think bards are already shafted. Limited abilities to persuade. No meditation. To be realistic, no one is going to wait around for bards to persuade whole party with buff. Bards are barely able to get all of the buff off on themselves with the constraint given (20 mins prep time on self every time you log in). Bards are only useful for two things, song of magic for enchanting and lore'ing items. If I had a bard in my party, I would NEVER ask them to cast the buffs that you listed on other members of the party because its just not worth it. And the downsides of what you presented makes bards so worthless that, its not economical to use in terms of time. When adventuring, I would always pick another class over a bard because more damage or more utility in healing(song of healing while useful doesn't cut it in life and death situations; also when bards dance and party is moving around, makes him pretty much dead weight). THIS is why players deem bards as unplayable and the benefit doesn't outweigh the issues with the class(it used to though)

Im in the boat of shafting bards more so that it opens up hand-picked spells for tribunals so players can use it (if thats your point or if thats even the case). Bards can find tribunal-less casters to cast their buffs (teron, empire tower thingy, fish village, seawatch?). Generally bards stay away from cities because of the way they can get in trouble with the law when trying to persuade, so there is no conflict between bards and tribunal abilities. I truly believe that bards are untouched by opening up tribunal spells and wiping out all active-tribunal spells on casters and enabling one main caster in the defense of the city.

It wont encroach onto the bard's persuade skill =). I would like to know if this may be a possibility of implementing into the game or giving spells back to casters in the city, or am I just beating a dead horse. If I am beating a dead horse, we can just stop talking here and I will accept my fate of the things that will come to pass. I personally dont want to talk about it if it doesn't yield results unless the conversation progressing in a situation where it may be a possibility.

Thanks Yed for responding to me =). I like it when my words are acknowledge even if it gets no where. Its very much appreciated that your taking the time to read my post and respond with your honest opinion.

I’ll try to be brief about Algorab’s statement.

You are a good RM. you’ve been fair and open minded and have treated instances of punishment as learnable moments instead of cracking the ban hammer. You’re great for the position and I thank you for doing it.
You talked to Percival requesting a greater level of RP either before or after RP and we still bicker to this day. It’s fun RP. So thank you for holding your pk’rs to that higher standard.

I think what I’m really getting at in my rants is that people are still bitter about the past.
I’m trying to provide insight into why there is discontent between the staff and players.
Thuban’s crusade left everyone with a bad taste in their mouth. I think I’m petitioning for a release on all bans. Because I believe that -you- need to be the one to pass judgement on these players. You are fair and accepting of all sides of a story. Thuban wasn’t.
Some players were targeted, by Thuban, because of their ferrocious Pk nature. “Breaking the golden rule” is objective, and Thuban intetpetation became law. Judge jury and executioner. After they were targeted, it was only a matter of time before Thuban dug up something that he could use to get rid of these “problem players.” Also, once targeted, the lashed out.

I’ll stop my rant and say that a blanket unban, when you have the time to police these returning players more carefully, could save SK.
The thread is “what happens if SK dies.” Well... it’s almost already dead. But you guys have a chance to revive it. You have a chance to be the bigger men and prove to the playerbase that you want us, as a whole, to have more people and ore interaction, and more fun.
If you include a “it we determine that this was a bad idea once a couple of returners act out, we reserve the right to re-ban everyone on the spot and we’ll call this a failed project.”

An un-ban could save this game. And if that’s truly what you want, you’ll strongly consider it.
But that’s that. I’ll try to avoid pushing for an unban. But that’s the best way to reset everything and start the pbase/imm relationship fresh.

<3 agreed.

Agreed with Trosis.

Good to know that my rambling finally made sense and a valid point. lol