IDEA: Get rid of thieves after Master (or Champ)

Achernar · **Posted:** Wed Apr 05, 2006 1:14 pm

Lei_Kung wrote:

This assumes the character will be inactive, which there is no grounds to believe. In fact all a player would have to do is log on X hours a month to avoid the inactivity castration. Therefore, under the proposed change a player could have a character with X amount of upper level gear and be active according to the system but for practical purposes be inactive. Think about how many players you know that have multiple characters. This is really obvious and to claim that for some mysterious reason level 40’s will go inactive at some increased rate is fantasy. I would argue in the advent of this change, level 40’s active time will increase as the need to GM decreases. Because there will be less pressure to GM, some players will not GM (or at a much reduced rate) and others will keep playing level 40’s because they are no longer at such a great disadvantage (when they would delete/go inactive otherwise).

This is why I mentioned doubling the castration rates for all levels on ALL equipment. Monthly castration != log in thieves.

A

Lei_Kung · **Joined:** Wed Jan 22, 2003 10:33 am **Posts:** 570

Achernar wrote:

Lei_Kung wrote:

This assumes the character will be inactive, which there is no grounds to believe. In fact all a player would have to do is log on X hours a month to avoid the inactivity castration. Therefore, under the proposed change a player could have a character with X amount of upper level gear and be active according to the system but for practical purposes be inactive. Think about how many players you know that have multiple characters. This is really obvious and to claim that for some mysterious reason level 40’s will go inactive at some increased rate is fantasy. I would argue in the advent of this change, level 40’s active time will increase as the need to GM decreases. Because there will be less pressure to GM, some players will not GM (or at a much reduced rate) and others will keep playing level 40’s because they are no longer at such a great disadvantage (when they would delete/go inactive otherwise).

This is why I mentioned doubling the castration rates for all levels on ALL equipment. Monthly castration != log in thieves.

A

I understand, my comment was in direct response to Algon's half baked ideas about how just removing the theives from master and up wouldn't result in hoarding. By the very nature of suggesting the castration change you recognize the potential increase of hoarding.

Regarding your suggestion, are you suggestion doubling the hours required to maintain what one has or that the castration happen bi-monthly? I just want to be clear.

Lei Kung

nothingxs · **Posted:** Wed Apr 05, 2006 1:48 pm

Bi-monthly dehoarding seems like the better idea.

sleeper · **Posted:** Wed Apr 05, 2006 4:19 pm

nothingxs wrote:

sleeper wrote:

(All de-railments of this thread aside)

... I'm still failing to see what this will acomplish. Someone care to explain? I'm all ears, and willing to change my opinion.

sleeper

You would have had to read the thread to begin with. tl;dr isn't a good excuse for anything.

The idea is to enable Masters to either hold GM level equipment, OR to be able to get equipment enchanted and still able to hold it.

I read this thread. I know whats being argued. Seems list most of it is about about dehording, something that will not be fixed by changing when theives take gear. Forsooth has put forth some good argument that I'll reply to in the next post. I think it would be more clear that way.

sleeper

Edit:

nothingxs wrote:

Bi-monthly dehoarding seems like the better idea.

... umm... no!

sleeper · **Posted:** Wed Apr 05, 2006 4:28 pm

Forsooth wrote:

The goal is to reduce the time between character start-up and meaningful participation in the high-level aspects of the game: PvP and top-level PvE.

Why is it desirable to do this? Because much of the game's fun is the higher-level stuff. Cabals and tribunals both have PvP responsibilities. Even non-group RP plots often stir enough conflict to start fights. As for high end PvE, it's true that Masters can already handle almost all of it. However, they don't get to keep the loot even despite having a harder fight than GMs would have. That gets discouraging.

<insert continued argument here>

Congratulations, thats the best explanation of this thread I've read. :roll:

All of a sudden, I'm for this. As long as its not an attempt to dehoard, this is actually a good idea. But de-hoarding is going to be a much tougher thing to fix... This will not solve that problem. Implementing this as an attempt to de-hoard will just continue to further kill SK.

Forsooth wrote:

The counter-arguments I've noted are:

1. Effort deserves its rewards. I don't think this is is very meaningful in a game, but an Achiever-type would disagree. The problem is that you can't please everyone with a levelling system. If we're trying to draw people in with "tactics and roleplay combined", requiring many hours of mob-killing seems odd.

Perhaps make it more worthwhile to GM... a few items that are GM only, and a maybe 2-3 stat points for reaching GM, not just 1?

Forsooth wrote:

2. Too easy to make new characters. If you make a system that keeps casuals and the unskilled happy, other people can plow through it easily. This is true, but what's more important for SK? Encouraging newbies and casual veterans to keep playing, or discouraging short-term characters? Besides, the long road to GM already encourages longer-term characters.

This will happen anyway... SK is dying. At this point in time it needs n00bs.

Forsooth wrote:

3. More elite-item holders means fewer elite-items per character. I'm not convinced this is actually a problem. But if need be, we can improve anti-hoarding code and increase the number of good items.

Not necessarily. Good hoarders know how to keep their stufff. Thats what makes them good hoarders.

Overall, well put Forsooth.

sleeper

One Valiant Truth · **Joined:** Sun Jul 18, 2004 3:09 am **Posts:** 2174

I still say level 46, not level 41.

Lei_Kung · **Joined:** Wed Jan 22, 2003 10:33 am **Posts:** 570

Sleeper I think you skimmed this thread and I don’t blame you because it is already 8 pages long. At any rate, this thread is about making master level character viably “complete characters”. With the prominence that equipment plays in SK, it isn’t really possible to be considered a “complete character” without access to the upper level equipment. Therefore the question is posed, “should the thieving system be disabled for master level characters and above?”

In discussing this question the problem of hoarding has come up. This is a concern for a number of reasons from the use of storage characters (was a problem in the past) to issues of greater inactive characters to issues of supply and demand (more characters holding onto upper level gear effectively decreasing supply). Hence people have been brainstorming solutions to counter act the increase hoarding that would most likely result. It isn’t about trying to de-hoard more then is currently in place.

Lei Kung

nothingxs · **Posted:** Wed Apr 05, 2006 5:30 pm

Building on an earlier idea:

Perhaps an idea would be to have two kinds of item qualities, original and 'modified'.

Until Master, thieves will attempt to steal any item that is higher in either original or modified quality from you. At Master, however, the thieves will only attempt to steal items that are higher in original quality from you. This means you can have your 41 tanso kit enchanted and keep it, too. This won't, however, let you hold onto the Staff of Demise.

Achernar · **Posted:** Wed Apr 05, 2006 5:59 pm

Since I know bi-monthly castrations wont occur, I am for doubling the hour requirement to keep the same equipment now, and adding in that containers be affected as well.

A

The Mighty Fluffball · **Posted:** Wed Apr 05, 2006 6:28 pm

One time I might have had thieves steal sacred stuff from me. Maybe it just crumbled while I was logged off.

Shattered Kingdoms

IDEA: Get rid of thieves after Master (or Champ)

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