Shattered Kingdoms

I like how the idea of allowing dual membership has come to requiring dual membership.

Making cabals weaker so you CAN possibly maybe do something, seems a bit [REDACTED] backwards. I mean if you're going to wimp cabals so you have the option of joining a tribunal as well, you might as well merge them.

Explain please. Because if for instance a couple of the Druid capabilities were given to the Guardians. It would weaken the Druid's a little bit while making the Guardians stronger. Unless you are making your char for rp purposes or you just like to sit in one nation all day, most chars today are made in mind for pk purposes, which means they need to join a cabal. Yes, there are the rp downsides of joining a cabal, but the pk abilites you get from any cabal outweigh the rp disadvantages. Which, if you are really good in not being publicly known, is not an advantage at all.

[edit] I think there needs to be a true pk incentive in joining a trib or none at all. As of right now, the extent of pk incentive to tribs is only within their borders. There is no pk incentive for independents.

I do not see merging cabals and tribunals as a real solution for two basic reasons. First, allowing unadjusted dual membership (I believe we should aim for better then that) allows for every benefit merging has. At the same time it would add two benefits of its own (more options for players and better preservation of the integrity of player organization RP). Also, they share all the same problems except for those associated with an expancing player-base. Since, basic unadjusted dual membership has all the benefits with fewer issues then merging; it obviously is a better solution.

The second reason is really a more in-depth look at how merging doesn’t fit with the themes of the organizations. The Hammer is an organization that more or less is dedicated to crusading against evil whereas the Peacekeepers are the government for Taslamar. A merging would then put crusaders as the governing body of a country. Even though these two organizations have been close (more or less) since the split, it is plainly apparent that they serve two distinctly separate functions. In fact, it is much less fitting now for the Hammer to take control of Taslamar because of its very nature. In the past, the Hammer ruled Taslamar by default; that is no longer the case. This can be said about any cabal and the one time corresponding tribunal.

Ultimately, I find the talk of merging to be at best a short cut to critical and creative thinking. I believe it appeals to many because of the “golden age syndrome” when they think about the past. And I believe when looking at the problem of inactive player organizations this seems to be a simple quick fix. But that is only because one isn’t looking any further then “less groups means more activity per”. Granted that should work for that one problem, but it doesn’t go beyond that. That same one-step type of thinking would say something like, “if a man is hungry give him a fish”. Well that type of thinking makes the man dependant on being given a fish. Whereas when you teach a man to fish, you’ve feed him for a life time. I know it might not be the best example but it does show the difference between one step thinking (that tends to create more problems down the road) and looking at the whole picture critically.

Note: I would be interested to know of Dulrik is/would consider merging. If not why waste time by even discussing it.

Edit: For flow and Grammar.

Lei Kung

Hmmmm, no I don't want any fries with that.



Would you please explain? The fact that players would have more options or there would be a deeper political atmosphere or cabals actually being able to maneuver in secret or tribunals actually being able to be more then police or any number of differences some how make it the same as merging? I don't see the reasoning behind making such a statement.

Lei Kung

I actually do think there are enough people to have all of the factions. The reason why tribs are in short supply is because what I have said on other threads. Aside from rp reasons, there is no other reason to do it. What Lei Kung adviced would make tribs more viable and would give people options. With those options, people would more most likely be spread about the cabal/trib, this does leave a problem with those that really don't want either. This would definately make a spread between cabal/trib and independent.

I really like the idea of tribunals moving to the foreground as cabals become more secretive. Along with dual membership this will create lots of interesting possibilities.



This is the part I don't really understand though. If the tribunals need a tactical boost, why not give them something original? Maybe like nothingxs's suggestions here, or I also remember a thread where different group affecting beneficial and maledictive spells, as appropriate to each kingdom, were suggested. Something completely new would do more to generate interest than redistributing current abilities right?

I really hate explaining myself. What I'm saying is everyone here is talking about how to change cabals to allow dual memebership and so on and so forth. My point is if you're going to allow dual memembership fine, but don't go around wimping cabals just so people have the option.

Instead of merging cabals and tribunals all the way, how about just having them co-operate better?

Let's assume that each cabal in a tribunal-country has successfully infiltrated the government. (Or in some cases, is just more highly esteemed by the government than mere army officers.) This gives the cabal leaders special privledges:

* Ability to induct people as tribunal members.
* Ability to select tribunal members to fill tribunal leadership vacancies.
* Ability to stay judgement on law violators. Sentences accumulate, but will not be enforced without specific action by a tribunal leader (unstay command.)
* Ability to deport and import citizens.
* Ability to merge and unmerge cabal and tribunal cb channels. When merged, both cabal and tribunal members receive all messages sent via either channel.

Advantages to this?
* People who want to RP a tribunal member still can. The extension of cabal cb may give them more people to talk to.
* Countries with no tribunal presence can still operate within reason.
* No problems with mixing cabal and tribunal abilities. A character can still only have one or the other.

I feel like I should start talking again on this thread simply to stop your silly ideas of wimpage.

How does a druid joining the guardians make the druid weaker? It doesn't. The guardians are a fantastic tribunal that could easily be counted as one of the strongest tribs in the game if anyone with talent was leading them. They have some very high level NPCs, and access to very high level spells. Not to mention the RP potential.

Trib + cabal = stronger than trib or cabal.

It's as simple as that. I don't know why you're all using this as some sort of excuse to remove skills of cabals, that's absolutely silly. I don't even like the idea of amalgamating those skills into new classes.

Here's a crazy idea.

Keep cabals as they are as far as powers go. Let people join a cabal and a tribunal. Let people get leadership in both.

Now I know that it doesn't involve any crackpot ideas and it doesn't involve my going off into fairy land like a lot of you have, but look at the original suggestion by Dulrik.

You. Are. All. Being. Crazy.

Stop it.

Again, I concur with Jardek.

Hell must be really cold right now.

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