Melee dominance, a continued discussion.

Gilgon · **Joined:** Mon Sep 12, 2005 3:18 pm **Posts:** 1704

Dulrik wrote:

Awhile back I implemented a change that made sanctuary and other damage reducing spells and affects take affect before the saving throw instead of after the saving throw. This made it much harder for someone to negate all melee damage through enchanting.

While reading this thread, something jogged my memory so I went back to check. It turns out that MP was not affected by the aforementioned change, so it is still really easy to negate spell damage to null with MP. I am probably going to make the change to it, so that it works the same as all of the other protections. I might be dissuaded by well-reasoned responses here, but you'd have to convince me.

I'm not saying that this one change is going to fix all or even most of the problems that this thread is about, but it IS one piece of the puzzle.

So, basically, you are going to increase the damage done by all offensive spells against people who keep up affects. I think offensive spells are underutilized and have no problem with this, but keep in mind that this will also boost the damage of scrolls, staves, and wands - things that are already consider imbalanced by the majority of new players and veterans.

I think the entire stave/wand/scroll code needs to be changed, personally, because I don't see an easy fix to this situation. But go ahead with it if it satisfies these whiners who want acid blast to do more damage.

Gilgon · **Joined:** Mon Sep 12, 2005 3:18 pm **Posts:** 1704

Syndal wrote:

Uh, that'd probably make a massive difference(remember the massive whining about damage after it got change the first time?), and it should have been that way to begin with. -_-

You didn't understand what he wrote, apparently. He is referring to spell damage.

Syndal · **Posted:** Mon Jul 07, 2008 4:49 pm

Sypher wrote:

Honestly Syn, I thought some of your personal experience would point out that Melee does a stupidly sick amount of damage when compared to spellcasting potential. Maybe you should go back and read the log where you tried to kill Algon's merc Hadaro with 2 charms. If I recall correctly he tore through both of them, and you. I also seem to recall him 2 rounding Derk.

You apparently have never played on the same side as(or against) a competent shaman.

I am used to laughing my [REDACTED] off at melee damage. Only thing I ever had to worry about were spells. Luckily everybody always seemed kind enough to want to be stupid and blind me or something.

Demon · **Posted:** Mon Jul 07, 2008 4:50 pm

Dulrik wrote:

Awhile back I implemented a change that made sanctuary and other damage reducing spells and affects take affect before the saving throw instead of after the saving throw. This made it much harder for someone to negate all melee damage through enchanting.

While reading this thread, something jogged my memory so I went back to check. It turns out that MP was not affected by the aforementioned change, so it is still really easy to negate spell damage to null with MP. I am probably going to make the change to it, so that it works the same as all of the other protections. I might be dissuaded by well-reasoned responses here, but you'd have to convince me.

I'm not saying that this one change is going to fix all or even most of the problems that this thread is about, but it IS one piece of the puzzle.

So MP has been nerfing spell damage this entire time and it wasn't supposed to be? I'm gonna vomit.

Syndal · **Posted:** Mon Jul 07, 2008 4:50 pm

Gilgon wrote:

Syndal wrote:

Uh, that'd probably make a massive difference(remember the massive whining about damage after it got change the first time?), and it should have been that way to begin with. -_-

You didn't understand what he wrote, apparently. He is referring to spell damage.

Uh...Yeah I did understand. Melee got changed like a couple years ago. I thought it changed all damage, he said it was only melee, and he was going to change spell damage now...And I said it'd make a massive difference and it needs to be done...

Apparently you didn't understand!

Gilgon · **Joined:** Mon Sep 12, 2005 3:18 pm **Posts:** 1704

Syndal wrote:

Gilgon wrote:

Syndal wrote:

Uh, that'd probably make a massive difference(remember the massive whining about damage after it got change the first time?), and it should have been that way to begin with. -_-

You didn't understand what he wrote, apparently. He is referring to spell damage.

Uh...Yeah I did understand. Melee got changed like a couple years ago. I thought it changed all damage, he said it was only melee, and he was going to change spell damage now...And I said it'd make a massive difference and it needs to be done...

Apparently you didn't understand!

There was no bitching after the code change Dulrik is referring to about spell damage not being wimped. 99.9% of the complaints were about melee damage being buffed too much.

Gilgon · **Joined:** Mon Sep 12, 2005 3:18 pm **Posts:** 1704

Demon wrote:

Dulrik wrote:

Awhile back I implemented a change that made sanctuary and other damage reducing spells and affects take affect before the saving throw instead of after the saving throw. This made it much harder for someone to negate all melee damage through enchanting.

While reading this thread, something jogged my memory so I went back to check. It turns out that MP was not affected by the aforementioned change, so it is still really easy to negate spell damage to null with MP. I am probably going to make the change to it, so that it works the same as all of the other protections. I might be dissuaded by well-reasoned responses here, but you'd have to convince me.

I'm not saying that this one change is going to fix all or even most of the problems that this thread is about, but it IS one piece of the puzzle.

So MP has been nerfing spell damage this entire time and it wasn't supposed to be? I'm gonna vomit.

All that changes, with Dulrik's proposed changes, is that sanctuary and protection are getting weaker when in conjunction with full sets of eq. AKA a shaman/priest/paladin wimp.

Syndal · **Posted:** Mon Jul 07, 2008 4:53 pm

Is my post hard to understand or something? You yourself just said there was a massive amount of bitching when it got changed the first time(only affected melee, I thought it affected all damage) now he's gonna change it to affect spells too...I don't see what you don't understand. -_-

Wow, Gilgon, are you serious? Everybody uses sanctuary and protection.

Demon · **Posted:** Mon Jul 07, 2008 4:54 pm

Gilgon wrote:

Demon wrote:

Dulrik wrote:

Awhile back I implemented a change that made sanctuary and other damage reducing spells and affects take affect before the saving throw instead of after the saving throw. This made it much harder for someone to negate all melee damage through enchanting.

While reading this thread, something jogged my memory so I went back to check. It turns out that MP was not affected by the aforementioned change, so it is still really easy to negate spell damage to null with MP. I am probably going to make the change to it, so that it works the same as all of the other protections. I might be dissuaded by well-reasoned responses here, but you'd have to convince me.

I'm not saying that this one change is going to fix all or even most of the problems that this thread is about, but it IS one piece of the puzzle.

So MP has been nerfing spell damage this entire time and it wasn't supposed to be? I'm gonna vomit.

All that changes, with Dulrik's proposed changes, is that sanctuary and protection are getting weaker when in conjunction with full sets of eq. AKA a shaman/priest/paladin wimp.

What I got from it Algon was that it means MP will not longer nerf spell damage from spells like flamestrike, acid blast, and other spells that shouldn't have their damage touched by MP but rather reflex.

Dulrik wrote:

so it is still really easy to negate spell damage to null with MP.

Gilgon · **Joined:** Mon Sep 12, 2005 3:18 pm **Posts:** 1704

Syndal wrote:

Is my post hard to understand or something? You yourself just said there was a massive amount of bitching when it got changed the first time(only affected melee, I thought it affected all damage) now he's gonna change it to affect spells too...I don't see what you don't understand. -_-

Wow, Gilgon, are you serious? Everybody uses sanctuary and protection.

Who is 'everybody'? These affects on people extremely rarely in pk, and also extremely rarely affect how much damage people take from damage-based spells.

Ok, delicate white flowers just got a bit crappier. What Dulrik is suggesting is not a significant change. It is much, much more meaningful when applied to melee than it is to damage spells.

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Melee dominance, a continued discussion.

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