Shattered Kingdoms

That's also a bit long for something I don't have much concern for. can I get a two sentence paraphrase?

No. You can read hours of text in the game and contribute your two cents constantly, no matter how irrational it is with the flow of the current discussion. You have no excuse for not taking the time to read and respond to anything properly and constructively, otherwise, what you post may as well be disregarded entirely.

-First of all Dayamin. I read the whole thing and it is entirely laced with bias and speculation. Your arguments have rediculous amounts of hyperbole which is a poor way of giving strength to position you are compaigning for and really I am disappointed. Precisely why I didnt want to waste my time on you, I knew you couldnt do it without being biased, but whatever. Here you go.





-People PK in law areas with the full understanding of the consequences involved. PlayerKiller in any game is surrounded by the generally accepted knowledge that someone is going to be a victim, regardless. The law handles defending the victim and although there are loopholes (carrying around rediculous amounts of coin), if people are willing to farm coin for the purpose of Pking then I really dont see a problem. In the event where one does not have coin, equipment is confiscated or more days are added to the sentence. An equal loss. People play with a conscious understanding that there is a chance they will lose everything. There is a chance there wont be a priest around and that is unfortunate. There is a chance a lot of things could happen to cause a chracter to die or to lose EQ that has nothing to with playerkilling, but making it so that there is no chance of being victimized would take heavily from the game. It's been this way for a decade.




-If at any point the game stops being fun, you shouldnt be playing. If you are getting PKd, there is an IC reason why it is happening. I think in very rare cases is there a PK where the victim is left wondering "Who was that character and why did they kill me?". However, collateral damages do occur from the pk of others, such as room affect spells. For that reason. Newbie protection should be extended until journeyman.



-The most vital and staple point of your entire post, imo. I posted a solution in another thread to being PKd (and jlooted) repetiviely and being upset about it. Make a PK immunity for those that want it as ive seen in other muds. Ive said this elsewhere but as a diabolic character, a tribunal/church leader, I am involved heavily in both roleplay and playerkilling. When you try to mix the two, one person lashes out. Granted, i've had some fabulous interactions with characters of the opposite aura, but i've had a lot more interactions where the character, who I have full IC-reasons to Pk, refuses to talk because I am the EVIL, uses the ignore/dismiss social, or just initiates an attack. Where is that going to put you? In the Afterlife. Point and case.

Of course my post is going to contain bias, as my characters are often pked without RP before the fact, so I never indicated my post was without bias. You're the primary straw that broke the camel's back on that issue. Thanking people for taking the time to read an extensive post is a courtesy I offer to anyone as a form of etiquette.

Also, my post is not full of exaggeration (hyperbole) or speculation, not even in the least. It's filled accurately with the facts in relation to the situations that players face on a day to day basis, and logs don't need to be posted, but I can gladly post the one of your character's first and only interaction with mine and would encourage others to post similar logs, but it's not necessary.

Overall, though, I'm not concerned with your disappointment in my position on the matter, because each time I post, I cover ONE central issue you never offer a counter to, because to do such would just indicate that you're either arguing just to play devil's advocate or just extremely foolish. RP should ALWAYS occur prior, before, preemptive of playerkilling. It has nothing to do with the structure of playerkilling nor does it have to do with anything that occurs after. It also has nothing to do with where in the game playerkilling occurs or whether or not it's fun for a player.

Players, especially new ones, don't consider it fun when their character is killed by a character they don't know and haven't interacted with before and get especially frustrated when all the items they have worked hard to obtain are stripped of them and destroyed or stolen. New players don't have a decade of experience to know the fastest way for them to obtain new things or find their way around to regain any experience that may be lost from their deaths at an acceptable rate. Sure, they can ask veteran players to help them out, but most veteran players don't hold new players' hands all the time because it's important for people to learn on their own as well.

You can't say that people shouldn't be playing when the game no longer becomes fun for them, though, because that's the complete opposite of what Dulrik wants and a flagrant contradiction of your agreement with Muktar in GD. The whole point is to make the environment friendly for new characters as well as veteran characters, so that the playerbase grows and doesn't decline. When players leave because the game is no longer fun, that's a decline in the playerbase. Players like you want absolutely the fewest amount of people playing the game, so you can enjoy it entirely yourself because you're selfish. There's no reason why anyone would argue against my post unless they had an entirely selfish attitude.

I really don't think people pk you without RP beforehand, because if it's happening to you, you wouldn't want it to happen to others. You're arguing for it which gives complete evidence to your selfish nature and others have also pointed this out. You're also literally arguing for the exploitation of the code as well as the continued breaking of the first rule, which should warrant a temporary ban until your sentiment changes and a permanent ban if it doesn't. People shouldn't be allowed to play SK with the eye for an eye attitude you take, because all that's going to be left is a game full of blind people filled with hate. Your post is just like spitting in Dulrik's and the IMMs' faces because their time and effort, which they don't get paid for and offer for other people's enjoyment, should be second to your view of how the game environment should be, not how they want it and certainly not how it's described in the rules they set forth.

I'm not posting these things because this is the way I want it for my enjoyment, because the thing I'm fighting for is the way Dulrik and the Immortals intended it for EVERYONE'S enjoyment, not just the enjoyment of a few selfish players. People can die so many ways and lose everything they have in the game, whether it's at the hand's of the code in the game or a player behind the keyboard, but when it's the player behind the keyboard it should most definitely include the RP necessary beforehand to make it an enjoyable experience and not a frustrating on. Seriously, if you were paying any attention to anything I'm saying, I'm fighting just as much for your equal opportunity to enjoy this game as much as anyone else.

Rebuttle as much as you want, i'm not going to quote every stitch of hyperbole and the abundant declarative statements when anyone with a high school education can see it for themselves.

A segment of the first rule, which you needlessly remind us with your every post, is to roleplay before pk. To what extent are you prepared to police this? People rp everywhere and rp is mandatory to join a faction and officially be part of a (coded) War. Based on any character's (note, not player's) goals and beliefs, the hope is that people join factions for the rich roleplay involved (granted this is not always the case) and to become a part of that roleplay there comes some baggage. Now, several players never declare themselves as part of a faction and I think nearly any cabal/tribunal leader no matter what aura will respect a player's wish to not have themselves revealed as part of a faction. This, despite non-involvement with PK, can have strong benefits. However, once a player decides to actively become a contributor to an in-game War (thereby putting enemy players at risk) they are surrendering their right to stay out of hostilities. New players will join factions and no one will be any wiser until special abilities are used in public OR (and most commonly) group PK initiates and there's a stranger (to the enemy) now fighting with already known members of a rival faction. That stranger, that <adjective> <gender> <race> is now a target. Was there roleplay before that character engaged in (group) Pk? Yes. That player had to RP their character to become a part of that faction. Will there likely be roleplay between enemies? Yes, we hope so and it is the responsibility of the players to ensure that it is initiated. Should there be roleplay after PK? Of course, to an extent. It should never be a requirement for a character to stand around talking to a ghost, potentially (and surely) putting themselves in harms way, but tells are an excellent way to backup a PK.

I am not selfish Dayamin. I am defending the game that I have enjoyed on and off for seven years. This MUD is outstanding and combines several elements. If I wanted to only PK other people I would play Halo3 on xbox live, if I wanted to only roleplay I would find something else. SK brings to the table both while offering players the option of having just one. Few pick just one though and the consequences for their actions become reason for complaints (Sakor), and some embrace the challenge and risk involved because a game wouldn't ever be enjoyable if there werent challenges. But what do you do? You persevere, you learn, and if it's available to you, you get help.. same as ANY game.

New players often can't help but make themselves known (who list helps too) and I dont know a single player that wouldn't answer any question or gather some lowbie eq to help a new player to get started. There are some that arent willing to take the time to nurture the needs of new players and that's why the mentor command can be toggled off.. again I dont know anyone that does turn it off.

Stop trying to attack me for defending Sk from your flailing nerf bat. Ive been through the worst this game has potential for and im still here. Changes are made based on need and as you said some projects have priority and thank the imms for that. For right now, the game is functionally enjoyable and I hope new players find it so too and stay, if they dont they are missing out, but something to keep in mind is that MUDs take a certain amount of commitment, time, and experience and many other games don't, some dont want to put forth that much effort with so little in return. For example being 12 and trying to beat Zelda: Ocarina of Time was impossible without help from a walkthrough (for me).. but I eventually got to the end within a reasonable amount of time. Starting SK is impossible without guidance from experienced players, but if players stick to it they find their way and after all this time playing I still don't know a huge fraction of what SK has to offer, but im trying to change that.

Smurf, please stop being so aggressive. Dalamar's taken great care to avoid defending himself so that he can continue with the discussion at hand. Your attacks on his writing style are petty, irrelevant, and pretty hypocritical when you consider the blatant errors in your own spelling and capitalization. I realize that when you feel that you're being attacked, it's an automatic reaction to respond aggressively. However, since I'm sure that you have no intention of derailing the topic, and want this discussion to continue as much as the rest of us, you're not trying to do any of these things.

I'm not presuming to attack you here. I'm just a more objective opinion who can see when you're unintentionally taking this too far. Thanks, man.

Also, I beat Ocarina of Time without a walkthrough. ^_^

When it comes to writing on an online forum I dont really exemplify flawless english grammar. I wish you and others would get used to the laid back but clearly legibile trend of posts, not be so anal, and stay on focus. I never mentioned a thing about Dayamin's style or grammatical mistakes, I am simply pointing out the fact that his entire argument is saturated with debate tactics that carry little credibity if someone is trying argue effectively. i.e. Hyperbole and declaritive statements.

I will agree that it's being taken to an uneccessary degree and id rather see the discussion end, but when i'm being addressed directly, I will respond directly.

There is no problem here that can't be avoided by a player. Jlooting/ maliciousness. Simple solution, don't make enemies. You'll never lose a thing and likely never be on the blunt end of an attack. There are characters that never PKd and kept their gear for nearly an entire in-game lifetime (Raycosus). If this is what someone wants they can get it with a little hard work and self-discipline. On the other hand, a little hard work and self-discipline can make someone a capable PKer. Let the crying stop here. Play the game and accept that there are going to be consequences for some behavior delivered to your character, don't take it personal, your character has a fictional existence. No one's going to chage and I would be disappointed if they did.

How old were you when you beat it? I later beat Majora's Mask without a walkthrough, being seasoned with Zelda games.

Smurf, the only way to avoid the malicious pvp anymore is to NOT play the game. Just by logging in, chances are you will get randomly rpless pvped.

Dude, people have been whining about this since I started playing the game 8 years ago. And it's just that: whining.

I don't see anything other than players being offended over the loss of material items rather than the actual life of their character which means that life is less precious than a suit of wtfever.

I don't believe "chances are you will get randomly rpless pvped", unless you take a side.

Anything can happen, not going to lie. The few with no reason to pk someone should be cursed.. not the people who have an IC reason to pk a known enemy. Now we can get into a discussion about natural enemies, druids v. necromancers, elves v. deep-elves and how they have a completely valid reason to assault eachother. A major issue is that people are not using mode stun the way it should be. A stun does no harm but sends the same message as a kill.. you are going to suffer at my hands.