Shattered Kingdoms

I have done some math, Rial, maybe you should try enchanting a suit with 6 non-MR enchants sometime that has at least 20 will on it (Counting stat mods), because if it doesn't have at least that much will, then all those enchantments will go to waste on account of charm person. The end. Also, if you think that all you need to fear from a sorceror is color spray, then you need to go back to newbie school.

But just to humour you, let's suppose that I have 5 jewelry pieces with greater will on them (Which I apparently just pulled out of my butt), and now my stats are screwed because I don't have any more stat mods on my jewelry, and I have no fort save or reflex save... unless I spend some time enchanting those greater will pieces or my armor, which have just as great a chance of fading or exploding as putting anything else on them, and even then it might end up being resistance or protection, which doesn't help my fort or reflex save... hmm. Looks like I'll be in the enchant business a while.

And Gilgon, where are some actual examples? You asked about seven questions and yet gave only sparse answers to about two of them, which does absolutely nothing.

And seriously, if I see the words "hard" related to enchanting again, I might have a heart attack and die. Currently, enchanting amounts to spamming ONE spell and praying to god that the right enchant falls. Does no one else see a problem that the very core of SK's PvP system, instead of rewarding tactics and intelligence, rewards people who sit in an inn and spam one spell all day?

QFT. I like enchanting, but not because of the process itself. I like being able to give people things that are more useful than they were before. And Edoras' system actually makes that more likely, so I support it.

I pointed out that it is the job of those proposing massive changes to gameplay to decide the answers to these questions.

Getting 20 will, 10 fort and 20 mp doesn't require any enchanting. Throw on sanctuary and your safe from fort/reflex/will spells. If you did the math you would know that you don't need to do any enchanting to get those saves.

As I see, it, that's a fundamental problem with the -Charm Person- spell, not enchant armor. Placing people at the mercy of a single I-Win spell is just uncool. I think it says a lot that a change to enchant armor is perceived as a "massive effect on PvP" when we're talking about a single spell. Clearly something(s) is/are unbalanced there and it sounds to me like that's dang good reason to start whamming away at a few things with the old nerf bat.

Every class in the mud needs help, because every class has to have their stuff enchanted. This includes warriors, hybrids, and casters.

All classes profit from this change, which is good, because they all need it. The classes that profit more are the non-enchanting classes, but the spellcasting classes profit as well, because their -own- stuff is easier to enchant, AND enchanting other people's things takes less time.

Some aspects of spellcasters are also negatively affected by this: Against an enchanted target, their spells are much more likely to be saved against if the target has put enchants in that save, or their spells will do less damage due to magical protection: So casters may be forced to think of new tactics if their old ones do not work: I refer to my previous post:



So your questions are answered.



If you think that this is a boost to only warriors and specifically giants (lol) then you're rather mistaken and should think about it some more. -All- classes need enchantments, this is a boost to everyone: Granted, non-enchanters are boosted more by this, but that's it.

And Rial, getting 20 will does require enchanting unless you either have serious hookups, or explore your butt off -and- the greater will items you're looking for aren't currently taken, and that's completely ignoring the fact that most people use stat mods as well.

I did some testing today with a 12 art mage on my GM deep-elf priest with 20 wis.

With a little over 24 will, I was charmed 10% of the time after 50 castings.
With somewhere around 13 will, I was charmed 24% of the time after 25 castings.
With 8-9 will, I was charmed 5 out of 11 times.
Just for testing purposes, I was charmed 5 out of 5 times with 0 will.

I then handed over my will rings (8-9 will) to a human rogue with naive WIS and he was charmed five times in a row as well.

In summary, my deep-elf priest has to have -good- will enchantments to survive against a mage with 12 art trains. Factor in that I have 20 will, innate deep-elf charm resistance (although I'm not sure how strong that is) and that I'm a priest, if class plays into saves at all.

My rogue friend, for example, will probably need 15 will just to have a decent chance of not getting put to sleep by an OP sleep staff, let alone resist a single cast charm person by a sorc with at least 9 art.

My point isn't that charm person is overpowered: My point is that enchanting is something that has to happen for PvP. I'm fine with that. What -I- want is for enchant to stop detracting from the game and start adding to the game, by actually making it worth the time of people who don't see the point in enchanting for 2-3 hours for a fight than can last 9-10 seconds.

The other huge issue in the game currently is art. The need to have such high lvl of saves is due to art. If you reduce art levels, then it will balance itself out.

I agree. I had max wisdom for my race, and a healthy amount of willpower approx 20 and still charm person lands on me in about 2-3 tries most of the time.

If you increased the melee damage of all classes dramatically, the people who would benefit would be warriors. Yes, some warlocks use pole-maces, and yes, some shaman are melee hybrids, but the people who would benefit are warriors. It does not matter if everyone benefits overall, it matters who, comparatively, benefits the most.

This is also the case with enchantments. Who benefits from enchanting being far easier? Certainly the people who can't cast damage spells benefit more than those who don't, right? And, certainly the one race who has a vulnerability to one type of damage spell, who now has the ability to specifically ward excessively against that type of spell, now has gained an advantage as well...right?

You aren't looking at code changes the way you should. Massive changes to pvp need to be looked at clearly - who benefits (comparatively). Who suffers (comparatively). Yes, obviously, although casters 'benefit' in some way from enchanting being easier, they actually suffer tremendously from such a change. Think logically.