Shattered Kingdoms

I think it's useful to keep emnity seperate from innate alignment. Quite apart from having different alignments, the races utterly despise each other. It's ingrained so deeply in their hundred-year upbringings that it might as well be inbred. There are lots of ways to reflect that, as long as it's there. The only thing new in this thread is an official ruling that resurrection is incompatible with emnity. This seems a pretty sensible conclusion.

Innate alignment simply means that by nature, a member of that race can't have forbidden alignments. It doesn't mean they're hyper-pure or hyper-depraved. All good characters can have minor moral lapses, just as all evil characters can have scruples and feelings. As long as their official alignment is the one that best describes their actions, they're fine. Of course, that doesn't cover any additional racial restrictions, like unselfishness in griffons or emnity in elves.

Playing emnity isn't easy, but it's not a huge burden for those who OOCly welcome IC conflict. All of SK's aligned races and classes are meant to fuel conflict, not stay out of it.

If there's a log of someone undeniably ignoring enmity with attempts to nudge a player/character to see their mistake and you get a '_I don't care_, that's not how my character behaves' sort of response, then perhaps some sort of intervention is needed to help (the generally newer character) understanding of the game. But for the most part/most cases I see the 2 races in question interacting, there is tension between them. At the crux of this rule/IC culture the line is as clear as paladins/hellions following their vows/oaths, far as I can tell. However, we've seen knights come up with various interpretations/ways to fulfill them. There's no one 'right' way to play a character. There are some wrong ways to play them (evil griffons, oath breaking knights, elves/delves 'getting along.'

Summary:
Let's move along and find something new to discuss then already.

I really hope you aren't referring to my posts. I'm not against emnity, but unless the people who run the game are willing to make it so ALL elves come from Sith'a'neil and ALL deep-elves come from Ch'zzrym, then I argue that you will have a different mindset depending on where you come from. And yes, alignment will play a part in how strong that emnity affects your character. Religion should also play a role. A principled elf might find conflict of principles in certain light aura religions (as he should) and refuse to join them. A miscreant deep-elf would revel at the opportunity to use an elf, or trick an elf in some way that would cause them to be outcast by their own kind.

Sure, we could all play emnity to the letter of the law, but that takes out much of the role play that can go on beyond "Duh, elf! Kill it!" I can get that kind of satisfaction from any game console RPG, and have better visuals too. The whole idea of 'Role Play' is to explore different situations. Not rehash the same ones over and over.

Granted there should be some lines that can't be crossed. Elves and Deep-elves should not mate, though it not completely disallowed. I can think of circumstances where it could be permitted, provided it was played properly. Certainly not for the sake of love though. There should always be distrust at some level. But to say an elf and deep-elf cannot under any circumstances be civil toward each other is rediculous.

The last deep-elf I played I experienced a player that played his elf... outside the box. He wanted to be with her (my deep-elf). Rather than get stupid about Emnity like people seem to be doing here, post rude comments in the forums or OOCly tell him to read up on emnity, I simply played her as "amused at the insane little elf boy." I guessed he was a newbie, so rather than just plain kill him a dozen or so times, and maybe get him frustrated enough to leave forever, I had her charm him and thoroughly humilate him. He learned quickly why elves hate deep-elves and we had some fun Roleplay getting him there.

I am not referring to anyone's post in specific fxaryst, to begin with. And once again, people who see enmity as "Duh, elf! Kill it!", lack some imagination that would take enmity and aid them ENRICH their RP rather than simplify it down; wth, if that's how they want it they may as well turn this game into a shot'm'up.

I think Forssoth has hit the nail there, his post is the one I agree with the most.

You're right. Unfortunately there are many that DO see it that way. Inate or instinctual hatred is fine, but instincts are overridden by higher thought. That's what separates people from animals. You can't tell me you haven't ever done something just because your gut tells you no. Is Emnity that strong that it overrides consious thought or rationalization? Those are the questions I ask. I think there should be room for even elves to make mistakes in how they deal with deep-elves and vice versa. This leaves room for more tangled situations, and getting more people involved. Personally though, I would like to see a better help file that addresses emnity rather than a few examples of points of view from specific characters and call that a blanket answer on how all characters should act and feel. Also, if I'm playing my elven or deep-elven character out of line, I really would like an Imm to let me know.

Emnity IS part of an deep-elf's or elf's conscious thought. That emnity flows from the race's essential nature and/or nurture shouldn't be an excuse to minimize it.

I believe the help files are deliberately vague. They're supposed to show the races hate each other, but they let us decide how that works out for our specific characters and situations. That's great for individual RP flexibility. But it only works if we accept that the races hate each other, without trying to dodge around it. Let characters be unique in their expression of emnity, not in their neglect of it.

Let's take an example from modern times. Say there's a person who is innately racist. He hates black people from his guts, because he is raised a racist to the bone. He happens to find himself (alone?) with a black kid. His guts tell him to kick it in the butt. But the way that society has taught him forces him to not do it (either because his faith would forbid him, or because the law would give him trouble or whatever reason).

Now, imagine the inner struggle in this man. Would he instantly go over his rationalization and kick the kid? Could be one option. Now imagine if for whatever reason, he has to converse with the kid. Can you see the thousands of layers that would be in their conversation?

Now THAT could make some really interesting RP there.

P.S. The example with the racist and the black kid was totally random. You can replace with a Hebrew and a neo-nazzi, a [REDACTED] person and a homophobic or whatever other fits you to see the metaphor.

(Hewbrew, cause the other word is filtered. Lol, I never thought it was considered an insult in proper content )

It was interesting when it was American History X
I have to admit I was betting that Nazis would come up a lot sooner than this.
This poor thread...

Godwin's Law is weakening if it took 19 pages to get there this time.

Fine, then let's make all deep-elves come from Ch'zzrym and all elves come from Sith'a'neil period. That way they all have the same upbringing and teachings engraved into their personalities. I think only then there can be no excuse. There is no consideration of important questions such as: What if an elf is raised by half-elves in Teron? The elf would still have the same good nature alignment, but would not have those teachings engraved in his or her personality. What if the elf was raised by monks in Nerina. That elf's teachings might be that peace is essential no matter what and would do nothing to provoke a fight, even be polite and helpful to a deep-elf in most cases as long as that deep-elf remained civil. Perhaps the elf was raised as a slave in the empire and is so terrified of deep-elves (because they are really mean) that he or she will do anything they say to avoid consequences.

If we hold emnity too strict, then we also need to change membership in many cabals. Elves would not be able to be in druids or Harliquins if there is a deep-elf as a member and vice versa. Yet I've seen both many many times. I've even been guilty of that one once. I say it shouldn't be so black and white. An elf might join a cabal in hopes of gaining leadership and "cleaning it up."



I agree completely. Especially the last part. I mentioned an elf that was in love with my deep-elf sorceress. This was a deliberate disregard for emnity. The role play still worked. My deep-elf took advantage of that elf's sense of trust and nearly destroyed him among his peers. Here is another thing I did with a deep-elf priestess of Zynor I used to have. I would resurrect anyone of light aura, including elves on the condition they would sacrifice some of their blood to Zynor. This was a precondition. I would log the transaction and send the log to Zynor. What this did for some people is really mess them up ICly. Some would get visions and in other ways messed with, provided Zynor had time. One paladin really got messed with bad. It was funny because most of the people that blatently ignore emnity do it out of convenience. To have it bite them in the butt IC'ly was the perfect wakeup call. Others did have, in my opinion, a good IC reason.

Here is my take on it. Rather than OOCly calling foul if you see an elf talking to a deep-elf, whine in the forums and to the Imms, which I have seen several times, have that character IC'ly try to find out why the elf is talking to the deep-elf and ICly guide that person. That in itself can provide rich and rewarding roleplay. And yes, there will be times where X and Y are OOC buddies and that kind of stuff should be stopped.