Shattered Kingdoms

The difference is how you die Kin. That's what rubs people the wrong way.

There's a psychological distinction here. Dying to a one-shot petrification or FoD or triple harm or backstab is instant. Boom. Over. Final.

Dying to charm person takes time and depends on the caster. That's torture.

This is why people hate Charm Person deaths so much. Because they don't have any control. Their autonomy has been taken away and they are completely powerless. A jagged pill to swallow for players who enjoy 'freedom of role-play.'

c charm xxx --- Activate God-Mode -> GO!

Who here is still whining about charm being OP in mind of the change? I'm not. It's finally back in line with the rest of the spells on the mud. Does juggs play anymore? I was under the impression that he didn't.

That was a nice novel, Kin, but you were late to the party.

Thanks for addressing this imms. I am sorry to see scrolls go too; some tactics involving their use and NPCs will no longer be possible, but that was probably the only way it could be addressed without major overhaul.

And Kin, I read your whole post including the tl;dr and had no idea what your point was at the end. Is it just that people should be willing to roleplay defeat?

I was of the opinion that you'd need some kind of additional save (e.g., for low hp% or at certain order commands) in combination with an increased cast time to balance charm person, but am content to see how it looks now. Again, thanks for the work on this.

Kin, I am the first one to propose to removal of charm person affecting PCs, and look back at other threads, I am screaming against those who whine for charm person.

However, if a spell offers to the game tremendously more whining and effort from the immortals because players can not be satisfied either way, then seriously, it's better for the game if it's just removed/replaced.

There's a lot of false information in kin's post, specifically about saves. You'll never be immune to any single spell, no matter how many enchants you have, yes you could save against it, but given the previously quick casting time, the sorc had several attempts to try charming you. The chance to be hit by it merely lessens with greater enchants.

Now, as far as charm person goes, the fact it was so overpowered was due to several things: quick casting time, if you're hit by it you can't do a single thing to save yourself, its success was affected by art, its success was affected by charisma. I'm glad the casting time was increased and it can't be scribed anymore.

I guess we'll just wait and see whether this will be enough. I do regret the fact that an "incident" such as this had to happen for something to be done, since people have been complaining about the OP nature of this spell for a long while now. Thanks for addressing this issue and I hope we'll have a lot less complaining, whining and disgruntled players and a lot more fun.

Of course the easiest thing would have been much simpler: Return the spell to where you can enter commands while effected like "rest" "quaff remove compulsion" "quaff cancellation" etc. I think the change to stop group positioning by the charmed was legit but you should still be able to escape and counter.

Ever since I started playing I have always tried to get out of charm person. FORCING player to play along is unwarranted and poor judgment on the part of game administration (Dulrik). The expectation that the spell be primarily a RP tool is unreasonable and unrealistic. It is one thing if an Immortal or quality-RP player does it, it is quite another when the primary focus of the sorceror/reciter is kill-loot. Which is most of the time.

Correct.



Wrong.

I'd like to introduce you to something called "pattern recognition", Sakhul.

I said less.

*shrug* I think there's two discussions going on at once here (and I don't profess to be informed on either one).

a) The taking aside of someone and suggesting a 'go easy please' request. We don't often chat to players, so it might help for folks to read HELP CONDUCT, too. I've reminded the pantheon that there's a room next to hell called 'Waiting Room' that might not offend the delicate sensibilities of those we just want to have a talk with. Multiplayers will still be taken to hell though.

b) The overarching discussion/brainstorming about possible improvements to make Charm Person more palatable for victims, and ensuring any such changes being understandable and playable by sorcerers.

I fully agree that some 'gray area' description of 'play nice with the Charm Person spell' isn't helpful but in fact confusing. Players should have the right to play the game without fear of being punished for a rule they can't follow. HOWEVER -

There is the golden rule, and if we're taking someone aside and perhaps asking them to go easy on a target, that's not a huge ask - that's us trying to help someone over a hurdle. I've seen replies like 'oh big deal, call the waambulance for the whiner' - but sometimes it's just basic politeness to give folks a break. It may also help keep folks from quitting the MUD over endless ganking (and as I said earlier, I am uninformed on the current situation, so this paragraph is all hypothetical example).

As mentioned and to be quite clear, there are some fresh immortals finding their feet and if they are present in the room to learn about handling players, that can only help everyone involved, in my view.

Lastly, if victim X starts crying wolf on every PK then obviously they're not going to get much help from immortals in the future. The fact is though we DO ask around when complaints are given to us, if we're online and have the time to do so. That can't be a bad thing and may indeed happen more often as there are more immortals online with the ability to investigate.