Shattered Kingdoms

I agree with your post, Styles, but I have a hard time buying that it was typed up in Newbtown.

Dropping the max level of undead would be a great fix without screwing anything else up.

is this really your argument? First, this was a problem long before any one player rolled up a necromancer. It's a problem with the class itself, and it is undeniable. Second, you completely ignore PvE. Third, you're not even right. Paladins do not go around soloing necromancers and landing kills. If you look at the limited historical data we have available on the subject, you will find that it's actually quite the opposite. You will not find a plethora of examples of paladins rolling up on necromancers and taking them down. You will not find any examples of a paladin soloing two necromancers at once, but you might find examples of a necromancer soloing two paladins.

This is not a case of "wimping the game." It's just balancing the game. Anyone who disagrees with bringing necromancers into line with the other classes believes that necromancers should have an advantage over everyone else for some reason. This seems like nonsense to me. There is no need to have one class that is more powerful than other classes.

There are also countless logs of barbarians, mercernaries, sorcerors and assorted other classes easily taking down 2 opposing players, or more. Does that mean all those classes are overpowered and broken? No. It just means that a lot of players do not have a knack for PvP.

All the logs lately of groups getting decimated by one necro involve things like multiple failed Holy Word castings.

As you said previously, necromancers are an advanced class. They are not as simple to play as you'd like to make it sound, because necromancers are not a threat unless played by people like Algon, Edoras, Syn, etc. That is proof that it's not as easymode as you are trying to make it sound. Other necromancers get steamrolled. Even Tragonis failed rather miserably at trying to play a necro.

Kin's necromancer sure didn't scare anybody, and you can probably find threads of him QQing about necros needing buffed while he played one.

First, the topic title is wrong; it should just say necros.

Secondly, I am sure there have been countless discussions about this already. So rejoice, I got the solution:
We just need 4-5 (10!, 10 would be best!) more necros in the next week and then the class will be surely sorted out in the best way.

I might do it too.

Then I will get back playing my paladin and I will be able to look the children of Taslamar in the eyes and tell them that "I will protect you from a necromancer!", knowing that this will be a probable scenario and not a hopeful wild-dream science fiction theory.

Actually,l I never advocated any buffs for necros. Changes, yes, but not buffs. Mostly it was wimping animate (Remember I made a thread about changing Animate a long time ago) to where other undead like skeletons and such were more useful than just wraiths. Also to make controls a bit more viable. I think there MAY have been one thread with me saying BoG was overpowered, but c'mon, 45-70% HP from one cast on a max con, max HP necro is a bit much. I know they're squishy but c'mon..Magma at least takes time to cast.

But that's neither here nor there. You guys need to seriously get off the kick of me whining about everything.

As I previously said, if you take two equally skilled players and give one a necromancer and the other any other class, the necromancer has the advantage. That is just a fact. No class is a threat if it's played by a newbie. That doesn't have any bearing on this discussion. I don't know why you would even make such an irrelevant argument. And you have yet again ignored the PvE aspect. No class can steamroll PvE like a necromancer can. This fact leads to more PvP advantages, too, because necromancers can more easily get to remote areas to gank people, and more easily acquire exactly the piece of loot they need at any given time. Other classes would need to group up to do these things.

Just try making a sensible argument that necromancers should have 10 GM barbarian NPCs. Really. What's the rationale for that? How is that not unbalanced? If their NPCs were made sensible, they would still be a very powerful class. A necromancer with two powerful controls and some markedly less powerful animates (as it should be) and his full complement of spells would still be a challenge for any solo enemy. Do you really think capping animates at a lower level would suddenly make necromancers worse than other classes? Let's hear your arguments in favor of keeping animate dead as overpowered as it is.

Necromancers, animate dead and etherealform are not a problem.

I see what you did there!

Wraiths are not "gm barbarian NPCs", unless I haven't been paying attention and GM barbarian NPCs now die in 5 melee hits.

Judging from the logs, I don't think most of the necro races can even do 2 controls like you just stated. I don't think Surrit ever has 2 controls.

The problem is honestly controls, I think. Since controls are what enable a necro to PvP/PvE solo. If controls weren't all basically Lathron with a weakness to BoG, it would require necros to group up with others for suitable tanks, because you are not going to do anything with wraiths and a horse.

I think the reason necromancers have (and need) such an ability to overwhelm things is because if they don't, there are countless ways to demolish them. 2-3 bogs, which takes about 2 rounds, will kill a necro. 2 holywords, which have a cast time of little more than a round will kill all wraiths, and possibly dispel controls. Anyone in a tribunal can manage either of those. Anyone with access to ranged combat can scare off a necro, rogues too, etcetc. Necros do not have access to the defenses that a sorc/warlock/priest does without intense prep.

Wraiths are NPCs with the barbarian skill set, therefore they are barbarians. Everything is class based now. Tehre was a time when the game had classless NPCs, but afaik builders have to set a class to the NPC these days. So wraiths don't have the hps of a pc barb. Oh well. My first character was a merc, and he had terribad hps because I didn't train hps and lowered con through reincarnation.