Shattered Kingdoms

Word on the street is someone else is already taking care of this. I will wait to roll a necromancer when they're balanced. Toning down the animate armies will be a good step in that direction.

You know what a necro can't do? Necros can't protect other PCs. Necros can't stand on the front rank. Necros can't get shot up by arrows and not care. Necros can't enchant, or cast any defensive spells except for armor and shield. Necros can't use any ranged skills at all. Necros can't animate or use any charms that don't get murdered by holy word or BoG.


If someone as obtuse as Styles tried to play a necro against skilled opponents, I'd love to watch him get his rear handed to him.

Your argument is fundamentally flawed, since every class could be toned down in some regard and still be "on the same level" as other classes.

Are sorcerors going to be broke if they lose shrink/enlarge?

Are priests going to be worse off in PvP if they lose resurrection?

Are rogues going to be worse if they lose trip?

Are barbarians going to be terrible if they lose alertness?

Etc/etc/etc.

The reason there are so few good necromancers is not because people don't want to play an OPd class (nice imaginary argument there though, Styles). It's because people aren't willing to deal with the risks and weaknesses inherent in the class, despite their supposed overpoweredness. And when they do try, they get hilariously murdered. This the same reason why the only good PvP sorcerors have been played by people like Baldric/Edoras/etc. Your average player can't manage the weaknesses of the class.

The same goes for any other class. A well-played merc/barb is nigh unkillable, and necros can't PvE any area that a sorc can't.

For the record, I believe I described every fight Tarconus had with any necromancers who had undead with them. And that one death involved an enemy rogue and an enemy swashbuckler.

You say that examples of actual PK are irrelevant, and the only thing that matters is damage output, and fights with cabal guardians. I'm not going to bother countering this because I don't think you could have meant it in the first place.

I also feel like I should clarify my position.

Necromancers are the most powerful class. You could nerf animate dead and they'd still be quite good. I'm not going to cry if they do get nerfed.

The imbalance is not as big as a lot of players seem to think it is. Most of my arguments have been meant to illustrate this. While I've always argued for balance between the classes, I am not opposed to this imbalance because of the natural enemies of the necromancer class. I also think it adds to the atmosphere of the game. I at least thought it was fun to go up against the big bad guys, and to try to compensate for the edge they had (which again, is definitely achievable). If in practice necromancers have plenty of friends, I feel this should change, and more greybies/darkies should have as part of their RP a distaste or distrust of necromancers.

I like how this turned into an epenor argument

omg, you guys are so big!!!11!

They asked for examples. The best ones I had were from personal experience.

And no, I won't sleep with you, jennbo.

Order all rescue. Zap cure. Recite cure. Order all bash. Order all dirt.


According to the pros in this thread, anyone who doesn't stand behind a pet is a newbie just waiting to get ganked. So necros can join the club.


Quaff stoneskin. Quaff ironguard. Zap ethereal. Brandish mirror image. Have a friendly priest or sorcerer enchant for armor protection. Quaff sanctuary. Quaff heal.


See above.


Zap fireball. Zap lightning bolt. Recite a bunch of different stuff.


Order all dirt paladin. Cast 'fear' paladin.


Completely irrelevant.

Would it promote game balance to make any of these adjustments? Would it be better for SK to have these adjustments get made?

how on earth isn't it obvious that especially with the recent changes necros are extremely overpowered? I propose two things:

1. remove dispel magic from necros

2. If they remove from group an undead, (so that they make more than 8 of them follow them) make it get dispelled immediately